You filthy swine!

[gspren]

From what I've seen and been told there are two ways to make money with pigs, either really big factory farm or really small operation doing custom or specialty stuff. I used to buy 10-12 feeder pigs in the spring and they were all sold to people I knew or friends knew, no breeders. Another neighbor that does have breeders and stays small time sells feeder pigs to FFA kids and also to people like me. I had two butcher shops I'd deliver the hogs to and gave people their choice, I charged by hanging weight. I had to stop it cause I was making too much money! :D :D

[mike_belben]

So im a few tall ones into boys bday down at the river. Will checkc back into the piggery soon. 

;D

[mudfarmer]

Mike I have been in the sauce as well and it is starting to rain so I gotta leave the woods now. Lots of thoughts for you...

[wiam]

We used to farrow piglets. At our most we had 8 sows. Biggest year we sold about 90 piglets. Tried doing spring and fall piglets. Fall piglets do not sell well. The last year we had little ones we had more laid on than we sold. Then the boar went nuts and attacked my wife after beating the hell out of a sow.  Now I gladly pay $100-$125 for piglets. Oh. And castrating piglets sucks. But they won't sell well without.(little or full grown). We sell 6-8 each year that we run through a USDA shop (we have used for many years) we sell 2-3 half's and the rest goes through farmers markets. We also do beef and maple. We don't use high tensile fence. Single strand electric fence (good fencer) on fiberglass posts is easy to move. With just a few, we keep them "trailer trained" as in trailer backed up to fence and feed them in there occasionally. When we need to load them I can back trailer in and they get in before I can put grain in. In Vermont the non usda processor can't be selling farmer. 

[farmfromkansas]

All the farmers in my area have given up raising hogs.  Worked for a neighbor who had hogs when I was young, after helping him I did not ever want to raise hogs.  He had 50 sows, and a farrowing house, my job was to feed the sows, and help with castrating and vaccinating.  Used to back the truck up to the pen with the buckets full of grain, and jump out the back and run to feed the grain, to avoid the sows out in the open pen.  Then wondered why my back was hurting. 2-5 gallon buckets at a time. One time his kid was riding a sow, and the sow bucked him off and then threw him up in the air by the seat of his pants. The kid was about 6, and wasn't hurt.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I know little to nothing of hog markets but I do know that if finishing them out for slaughter most customers aren't going to like the taste of "forage finished" pork. They are accustomed to the ideally mixed grain ration pork grown by Smithfield. There are buyers out there for forage finished pork just like grass finished beef, but they take time to find and cultivate.

[barbender]

Me and a buddy raised a few hogs once, just for our own use. We just gave them the hog feed we got from the local co-OP, raised on a pig pen (not pasture raised). That meat tasted good, but it had a slight "pig pen" odor. I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but I did. I believe it was the next year, hog markets crashed and we went to a sale barn and bought 260 pound finished hogs for $65. And they tasted way better🤷🏽‍♂️

[doc henderson]

it is a fair amount of work to kill, gut, skin and butcher a hog.  took us 4 hours to do two.  a group of 4 guys with a older guy that was instructing us , one pig at a time, two swine at a total.  we  put the meat on the smoker for 12 hours.  and then divided it and we all vacuum sealed it. 50 bucks each for the pigs at 300 pounds.  but a lot of 'bloody" work.  we sent the bellies to a processor to make bacon for a price.

[pigman]

I know nothing about hogs. I have not touched a live hog in 20 years, but I did have 100 sows in a farrow to finish operaton for 15 years.  I quit not because of low price or lack of a market. I quit because of government  inviromental regulations. You either have to be large enough to buy off government or small enough to not be noticed. I was the wrong size.

[Bradm]

I'm the son of a butcher, grandson of a butcher, brother to 2 butchers, nephew to a few more, and cousin of yet another butcher.  You could say that I know a few butchers.  Locally, I could set up a shop tomorrow and have enough work booked to fill out the rest of the year before the end of the day.

If you can get into an existing building, I think you might be better off setting up a full service abattoir.  It's one of the only businesses that is recession proof.  A quick Google search brought up this: https://www.tn.gov/agriculture/consumers/food-safety/ag-farms-food-manufacturing-and-warehousing/ag-businesses-custom-slaughter/slaughter-license.html and that's the best place to start.  Unless you're looking at export than USDA may be overkill for day to day operations.

With the right setup, 2 people can slaughter about 50 pigs in a day (6-7 per hour), let em hang (drip out/chill) overnight, and process over the next 2 to 3 days.  Add in the ability to setup a stall at a local farmer's market and you can start some retail sales as well.  Slaughter is messy and smelly and it's hard work but it can pay well if the shop is well managed.

I do think that right now is a good time to start a butcher shop if one is so inclined.  Given the events of the last year and a half, both Covid and ransomware (if I remember correctly), look at how much capacity was taken out due to shutdowns and extortion; not to mention the fact that the big plants don't want to deal with the hobby farmer who raises a few a year for their own freezer.  There may even be some government grants available to help get started.

[wiam]

https://sugarmtnfarm.com/
This guy has a lot of information in his blog

[mike_belben]

Mike, you got a lot of negative opinions about your original idea and you also seem to arguing against it but are yet seeming determined. So when do you start the project?  

Youre right gary.  Oh so many good reason not to do this at all.  And maybe a few good reasons in favor.  Hard to say, im of two minds about it.


Its the size of the commitment.  Seems all or none for it to not just become another bill.  Being already stretched too thin, with too many other chores and commitments.. Do i make more?


There are many reasons why i need to stay close to home and without any defined schedule.  There are few ways to make any money at that without inviting lots of customers to your house who may well want your stuff, dont want customers coming to my home anymore.  

Pigs seem to check a lot of boxes but i dont need another hobby.  Theres gotta be a couple bucks in it for certain.  Is there any money in half ashing it?  Doubtful.  Do i want to go convert the woods i love to a bright sunny field for a half hearted attempt?  Will i have cutters remorse?    

I go back and forth.  I like a challenge and have done many things outside my comfort zone at first but raising critters isnt really one of em. Im out of my element in livestock.  Only in hindsight does the correct woulda coulda shoulda path reveal itself and i dont have the energy to waste or bounce back that i once did.  My competive nature has faded.

[mike_belben]

@Bradm  

Thanks for the valuable perspective.  Ive said to my wife quite a few times.. We need more slaughter/butcher operations around here because the appointment waits are really hurting several small beef producers we know. 

 So that was what got me looking deeper into it, the opportunity is knocking.  That i have no real idea what im doing never stopped me from dicing a deer or teaching myself any other thing i felt like doing... But what really made me say no was the realization that suddenly id have no life.. Poof, carve meat all day every day to keep customers happy.  When do i find time to build the house i promised the wife or machines me and boy are building?  Nope.  Cant go back on my word.  


Ive read far beyond what you linked but never have found the exact guidelines and procedures laid out by said commission for custom slaughter.  To me, you can still be a hobby guy here and there with a custom slaughter license.    Been months and im foggy on it now but most documents i could find were about who is and isnt usda exempt, what custom slaughterers cant do, defining altered parts and resale etc etc.  Never found the specific guidelines on facility, procedures etc.  

There is no question the startup costs are beyond me at this point.  Just fencing pens is gonna take me quite a while to afford. 

[doc henderson]

Mike it seems you like to be self sufficient (understated).  get a couple piglets and raise them up with the kids and then (if they will let you) harvest in the fall and at least you have a new avenue to put meat in the freezer.  anything we all try to do to make money enough for the family, turns into real work.  Any business that involves animals over many months will potentially exhaust you and keep you up at night.  you know all this, and it echo's what I think you may have concluded.  you could get a job in a local custom meat processor, but now you have a day job.  Best regards, Doc.

[mike_belben]

Yes, youve summarized it well doc.  


So ive just wisened up about smithfield foods.  What an absolutely disgusting conglomerate.  Wikipedia claims they were instrumental in putting about 600 THOUSAND small pork producers out of business since 1980 in north carolina alone.  Thats hard to even fathom.  

Whats worse, smithfield owns many many brands and china owns smithfield entirely.  Largest chinese acquisition of a US company in history.  Not buying that anymore. 

[Gary_C]

If you think Smithfield is bad, look up the history of IBP now 
Tyson Fresh Meats.

Or there was Blue Ribbon Beef in Mason City, IA which was bought by IBP and then buried (including the meat in their freezers by some accounts) over a labor strike.

Meat processing is a big boys game and there is little to no honor among the players including the processors and the USDA meat inspection system so be careful what you get into. Those guys kill for a living so they play for keeps. 

[mike_belben]

well it didnt take long to see a trend.  IBP was the biggest beef packer.  occidental petroleum owned them beginning in 1981.  does americas biggest beef packer sound like something an oil company would want to run?  

well..   armand hammer was the CEO of oxy from 1957 until his death in late 1990 and he is very well known as a moscow influence agent, named by several defectors. within 12 months of his death occidental sells IBP, it seems he was the force within oxy keeping hold of something completely unrelated to their industry.  

russia having influence of our largest beef packer, and china having ownership of our largest pork packer is enough to make me want a few animals out back.  the holomodor comes to mind. 

[Don P]

The fan might be on our tail or not but it never hurts to have the ability to stock your larder local if not closer  ;).

[mike_belben]

I dont really worry for me, but i do for a lot of others.  The veteran in me i guess. 

[mike_belben]

IBP's account of their checkered past

https://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/91/Ibp-Inc.html

[mike_belben]

And one account of the december 1998 live hog price crash that seems to have wiped out the small family producer and consolidated the industry into mega owners and contracted lease growers.


20 years since 1998 hog price wreck | Farm Progress


It is interesting that retail pork was high yet hogs were way down.  Sorta reminds you of the mismatch in logs and lumber sometimes.

[mike_belben]

Farmers perspectives on it.  

Viewing a thread - Hog market in the late 90s


Learning pretty fast i dont want anything to do with trying to produce pigs to sell to slaughterhouses. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   I can remember several years back when we could go to the local livestock auction and buy 250 lb hogs for $25 or less if there were any brought in. Many farmers shot them in the field as they could not recover their transport costs to the market or afford to keep feeding them and hope for better prices in the future. As I remember the price of pork in the stores remained unchanged.

Tom T. Hall - Who's Gonna Feed Them Hogs - Bing video

[Nebraska]

That hog crash dramatically  changed much about my job. 

Cattle are going through similar changes at least at feedlot to packing house level.
Not enough competition  at the top end for finished product.

[mike_belben]

Just got my CDL physical done.  The doc happens to be a neighbor of mine and a small angus producer.  Said much the same.  Supermarket beef price way up, auction lot prices suck, custom slaughter spots unavailable.  "Prices are the same as 20 yr ago, costs have tripled."


Still waiting on your hog input doctor M.