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Author Topic: Can a 18" sq SYP post be kiln dried for a short period of time to help set sap ?  (Read 1066 times)

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Offline Sedgehammer

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I had posted this also in general and realized that this might be the better place for it.

I know if one kilns a post that size to dry, you don't have a post. Just wondering if there is any amount of time that one could dry it and not ruin the post. Some checks are fine

No, the post doesn't need to be that big, but because it can be, it shall be...... ;D

Thanks

Offline doc henderson

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I assume this is for a post and beam, not a fence post.   :) 
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Perhaps a sho shugi ban treatment would toast the sap on the outside. It would look good at least. 
HM126

Offline Sedgehammer

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@btulloh negatory ghost rider. A rub whether on purpose or not wood render one charred..... ;D


@doc henderson yes post and metal beam. It needn't be that big, but why not....... ;D


No matter the size, still wonder how to set the sap

Offline Don P

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Saturated steam, not real DIY friendly.
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline Sedgehammer

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Saturated steam, not real DIY friendly.
Agreed. Have a place I've bought our rc. They have a kiln. Any thoughts on a short duration heating ???

Offline Don P

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I only know the theory. In a commercial steam kiln you would run up the temp in a very high humidity environment to avoid drying and checking but "boiling" the volatiles in the pitch. I seriously doubt anyone has done it with that dimension or would be willing to try, nor would it be affordable for one.

In green log homes if the pitch runs or beads you "freeze" it by rubbing it with ice and scrape it off.

Running low heat and high humidity the first couple of winters will help with checking till the core catches up. A surface finish that can breathe but slows surface drying will help as well, an oil rather than a film. We used to use "Seasonite" from Flood but it is no longer available. Heritage is probably the closest.
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I only know the theory. In a commercial steam kiln you would run up the temp in a very high humidity environment to avoid drying and checking but "boiling" the volatiles in the pitch. I seriously doubt anyone has done it with that dimension or would be willing to try, nor would it be affordable for one.

In green log homes if the pitch runs or beads you "freeze" it by rubbing it with ice and scrape it off.

Running low heat and high humidity the first couple of winters will help with checking till the core catches up. A surface finish that can breathe but slows surface drying will help as well, an oil rather than a film. We used to use "Seasonite" from Flood but it is no longer available. Heritage is probably the closest.
What do you think wood happen if it was put in a kiln for a few days or a week or so?
How big of a deal wood the sap bleed in your opine?
Will not be sealing it. Staining perhaps

What is the advantage of Heritage do you think?

Offline WDH

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I think that much heat and high humidity would damage my kiln so a
I would never ever do that for a post.

However, my kiln is a dehumidification kiln, not a steam kiln.   Might be ok to do in a steam kiln if you can find one.  
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Offline Stephen1

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I do lots of EWP pine beams, fireplace mantles. The IDRY goes to 160 which sets the pitch. I would put your post in for 1-2 weeks and run the regular cycle. The pitch get set and the checking starts on the beam. It alos sterilizes it. This is still all experimental to me, but the customers like it also and I haven't had any complaints.
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I do lots of EWP pine beams, fireplace mantles. The IDRY goes to 160 which sets the pitch. I would put your post in for 1-2 weeks and run the regular cycle. The pitch get set and the checking starts on the beam. It alos sterilizes it. This is still all experimental to me, but the customers like it also and I haven't had any complaints.
I have read lots of reports saying same about that type of kiln for posts. Trouble is finding one. None local as far as I can search

What wood happen if just a conventional kiln for a shorter period of time of a week or so ?

Offline Stephen1

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That I donít know. 
Why do you need to set the pitch? Is it going in your house? 
What would happen if you set up a small insulated box with a heater and cooked the post for a few days? 
Can you saw it oversized, heat it for a few days get it up to the 160 range . 
Then resaw It?
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Offline Sedgehammer

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That I don’t know.
Why do you need to set the pitch? Is it going in your house?
What would happen if you set up a small insulated box with a heater and cooked the post for a few days?
Can you saw it oversized, heat it for a few days get it up to the 160 range .
Then resaw It?
In my shop which is our temporary home until the house is done. I'd say 5 years or so
Thoughtin. That's an idea
Negative on the re-saw

Offline Sedgehammer

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anyone else have any thoughts on kiln drying this sized post for a week or so on how it wood affect it ? thanks

Offline doc henderson

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I wonder if using a propane torch on the surface would dry up the outside and set pitch for a quarter inch or so.  might allow some finish.  how many of the posts will you be doing?  can you get and old culvert pipe, paint it black and put a fan in the end?  rapid dry.  the biggest problem is the small surface area to volume ratio.  by nature takes more time.  you can also add heat to set the pitch but then be good to insulate.
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Offline Don P

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By heating and drying the shell over a still green core you're setting up a serious checking scenario. That is the purpose of a very high humidity environment at that temp. I'd let it go and deal with the pitch, if its even a problem, later.
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Offline cabindoc

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I do lots of EWP pine beams, fireplace mantles. The IDRY goes to 160 which sets the pitch. I would put your post in for 1-2 weeks and run the regular cycle. The pitch get set and the checking starts on the beam. It alos sterilizes it. This is still all experimental to me, but the customers like it also and I haven't had any complaints.
I agree with Stephen1 
I do nothing but big pine posts in my kiln.  Granted I am a newb to kilnology, but I have been in the log home industry for over 20 years.  I know some mfr's who would kiln said posts and I know of a majority of those who would ship and build wet.  shrinkage is minimal as a post.  I just spoke to Kguy about this yesterday.  run though dehum process until you get to 12% on the surface, I think he said like 25% in the core and then set your temp to 160.  1 day per inch for 1-3" after that, 1/2 day per inch.  so a load of 10" posts would be at that temp for about 6 1/2 days.  Even if you don't get the core to 160, sap only needs to be set a few inches of the surface.  Not likely going to bleed out from 4" under the surface unless you have a check that deep and temps are above room temp....you never said if this is interior?  or outside facing south...?
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Offline Sedgehammer

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@Don P oh, so it's not an automatic that there's going to be a sap?

@cabindoc interior. I don't have access to a vacuum kiln. My understanding is that is the only type of kiln to use for posts, so was wondering what wood happen and if any benefit to just putting it in a conventional kiln for a short period of time

Offline K-Guy

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For something that put in a kiln for a 7 days at 160įF you would set the pitch for most of the beam but depending on moisture content and species, you may not get the core set. That is what is usually done with beams this thick, they count on the outside pitch be set to seal in the unset pitch but and holes for bolts or tenons could allow some to seep out. While you are doing this the heat would also be pushing water out and stressing it due to uncontrolled drying and you will probably have defects from this. I will guarantee you will have more cracking than would if you dried properly over a long period.
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 the vices I admire." -Winston Churchill

Offline doc henderson

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that said, you can make them oversized, and saw down to size after.  if possible.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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