Ford 540 vs 445... Now 545 D

[trimguy]

Wow, 5 new guys, I can't even get them to apply down here.

[Ljohnsaw]

Ok, back to my 545D.

I was having issues with my new battery not charging. I topped it off with solar. The old 4 wire alternator was putting out 11.44v. I pulled it and decided to replace it since the bearings were noisy.

I got a one-wire and installed that.  With the tractor off, voltage at the alternator and the battery is 12.4 v.

Fire it up, battery drops to 12.2v and at the alternator is 11.6. Run the rpm way up and I see 11.9. The battery stays around 12.2.

There is a high wattage 1k ohm resistor on a plug near the fuse box. I removed that thinking it was for the old voltage regulator but made no change. All the fuses are good and none are missing.

What am I missing? What else should I check? Do I have a bad brand new alternator? I have the full set of manuals to look at the wiring, but they are at home.

Minor update:
I traced the wire from the alternator to the starter selinoid. Several lugs terminate there. I cleaned this two years ago when I got the tractor. The nut and washer were rusty. I pulled everything off, shined it up with Emery paper, coated with dielectric grease to try and combat the corrosion and put a new zinc chromate washer and nut. Snugged it all up and now there is no voltage drop between the alternator and battery. I also ran a temporary jumper from the alternator ground directly to the battery and had no affect on the charging voltage. It sits at 12.44 no matter the engine rpm.

Is it that the alternator thinks the battery is fully charged and doesn't push something like 13.5 to 14.3?

[rusticretreater]

A four wire alternator to a 1 wire?

Need some more information here.  You mention the "old voltage regulator".  I would expect that with four wires your old alternator had an external voltage regulator.

How did you get to one wire?  What did you do with the other wires(3)?  These wires all have a function.  It sounds like the alternator regulator circuit is not energized.

The four wires are Field, Ground, Regulator, and Output. The Output connects to the same starter terminal as the Battery Positive cable

You really need to have the stock style alternator or a significant rewiring of the tractor.

[Ljohnsaw]

The old alternator had 4 wires on it as the voltage regulator was part of the alternator. One heavy wire from the old alternator is what was transferred to the "one wire GM style alternator". The case is ground and I did try jumping it directly to the battery just in case it wasn't making good contact. There is one rather thin wire that was the old ground that I didn't hook up. But that is not required for these alternators.

Did the same thing with my old Davis Little Monster backhoe when the generator was seized up. The only drawback with these one-wire is you have to rev the engine for them to start charging and then you can drop the rpms down.

The other 3 wires I isolated and wrapped in electrical tape. The battery charging meter was not working so I don't miss it with this configuration.

[newoodguy78]

Do you know what rpm the alternator you installed excites at? Being a diesel engine it may not be reaching the necessary rpm. 
I got a real education a couple years ago on this. I'm a big fan of one wire alternator conversions but all one wire alternators are not the same. 

[Ljohnsaw]

Not sure. But I did get an alternator with a bit smaller pulley than the previous one. I'll have to measure the pulley and the crank pulley so I know the ratio. I'm thinking it's between 4:1 and 5:1.

Working on my SkyTrak today there are lots of "spare" Wires hanging about. It has a one wire as well. I found the positive wire on the alternator only had about 3 strands of copper remaining and that was probably the root of my battery charging issues. Will see when I get it back together.

[Magicman]

Happy Birthday John.  8)

[Ljohnsaw]

Thanks, MM.

Measured the pulleys. Alt is 2¾. The crank is hard to get as there is a U joint on the front for the hydraulic pump. Right around 9½. So about 3.45:1. I've got the test printout for the alternator at home so I'll see if it shows the starting rpm.

Forgot to mention, even though the Interstate batteries are over 10 years old on the SkyTrak, the sitting voltage is at 12.4v so I think they are ok!?!

[Magicman]

Fully charged they should be 12.7 so you are probably OK.  My sawmill idles @1500 rpm so that the alternator is always pumping out 14+.

[rusticretreater]

Resting voltage is ok at 12.4v.  Its the ability to deliver that voltage at amperage that is the gauge of a battery's health. Only a load test can determine that.

[beenthere]

Resting voltage is ok at 12.4v.  Its the ability to deliver that voltage at amperage that is the gauge of a battery's health. Only a load test can determine that.

Right on rusti.  

[Ljohnsaw]

The test sheet that came with the alternator says the "Turn ON speed" is a meer 926 rpm. So that shouldn't be the issue. The sheet also states the set point is 14.64 v. I guess I should have brought it home. Got it a AutoZone and it has a lifetime warranty.

 

[newoodguy78]

FWIW, the shop owner that helped straighten me out on a one wire conversion told me a diesel alternator should "start up" at 700 rpm's. Does your tractor idle at almost 1,000 rpm's? That sounds high to me. 
On that conversion job I had gone to Napa and bought what I thought was needed. after struggling with it fighting similar low output issues replacing it with another one thinking it was bad from the get go. I gave old Peter a call, he actually made a field visit to make sure my wiring and workmanship was done properly. Which he was happy with. He knew as soon as he read the tag on the alternator what the issue was. That's when he explained the differences. A very helpful salt of the earth guy. Ended up getting one through him that he recommended, it fixed the issue.

Now I'm not saying the potential for getting a bum one isn't there it certainly is. Good luck getting it figured out. Electrical gremlins can certainly give a person fits. 

[Ljohnsaw]

My tach is not stable. It just jumps all over the place. Measured the pulleys and I've got a 1:3.75 ratio. So I only need a little rpm to hit the target for the alt. I was gunning the tractor pretty good hitting the governor limit at probably 1,600?  So the alternator was going way faster then needed.

I called the store and they have a replacement and were going to bench test it and then set it aside for me to swap out next week. I suppose I could have the bench test the one I have.

I did read where you can buy a two wire connector to convert to a 3 wire setup. One wire goes to positive again and the other through a lightbulb to the ignition switch. The light will light up when you turn the key on and goes out when the alternator starts producing. If the alternator stops producing, like the belt breaks, the light comes on again. Like the old idiot lights.

[Ljohnsaw]

So the reason the alternator doesn't work as a one wire is because the one the sold me wasn't a one wire!

They swapped it for the right one but now it doesn't fit the bracket. Need to cut and weld it!

Til next time!

[Ljohnsaw]

Hmm, I was looking for something else and saw I left this open.

IIRC, the auto parts place sold me another "one wire". When I got to looking at it, nope, still not right. So I got my money back but lost the core charge. 

Went online and found the OEM equivalent for $119 with no core charge. Got that but no pulley!?!? Called around and visited other auto parts stores. Nothing. There used to be an alternator rebuild shop near me but long gone. Got a reference to one a little ways away. They set me up with a pulley. He said, should have brought your original alternator to me, could have fixed you up right away! :

Anyhow, back in business, charging up great. I use the preheat switch and can get it started at 30°!

[Ljohnsaw]

Andries,
Do you only use a block heater to get your 545D started in the winter or do you have to use some ether/starting fluid? There doesn't seem to be any convenient place to squirt it!

Yesterday morning the preheat switch was iced over so I couldn't use it. I resorted to pulling the air filter so I could spray a little juice to get it going. This morning I was able to use the preheat and got it going at 30°.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Install a circulating coolant tank heater. Plug it in and wait. Cold starts are hard on a diesel.

[barbender]

 I avoid starting fluid as much as possible, and then only from a warm can. If the ether is really cold it doesn't vaporize, and that's when I've experienced "vapor lock" and my theory is that's what causes thrown rods, too. 
 
 I use "just a sniff" on the ol 3-53 Detroit in the winter. But I don't have much love for that engine, either🤷

[Ljohnsaw]

Chevy,
I'm off grid so no AC power.

On a related note, the rebuilt head on my SkyTrak. I set the valve lash per spec but it is now a beast to start. It requires a wiff. Would to tight or too loose cause this? It just cranks and cranks. I can smell the diesel and there is a fog emitted but no ignition. I'm thinking too tight that it can't get good compression to ignite. Once warm, all good until it cools off too much in this 30 degree weather.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've run plenty of blocks heater off a little honda portable generator...

Running the generator is much cheaper than blowing a ring land off a piston with ether. Ha

As for valve lash being the reason for a hard cold start it would be very doubtful. For the valves to be that far out to lose cranking compression I feel like there wpuld be considerable valvetrain clattering noise.

Now who rebuilt the head and how they cut the valve height can have an effect on compression. How much that would effect cold starting would probably depend on the condition of the bottom end of the motor.

[Ljohnsaw]

Ok. Thanks. How long does the block heater take? I was dreading having to get back to the valves to adjust. Tight quarters, I have to remove a lot of air intake plumbing just to get to the valve cover. The shop that did the valves has been around for a 45 years that I know of. The son took over for his dad. All they do now is heads for nearly all the shops in Sacramento.

[chevytaHOE5674]

How long depends on outside temp, wind, and block heater wattage.

I prefer circulating tank heaters as they are higher wattage and heat up much faster. Temps above 10-15° most of my tractors will start in less than an hour if they are sheltered from the wind.

Just because a shop has been around forever doesn't mean they cut the valves to the the spec'd height. Many just cut the seats until their marking die is removed 100% of the circumference. Cutting to a specific height takes more time as it requires repeated cutting and measuring, or in some cases cutting a counter bore and pressing in a new seat and then cutting that. 

Could that be your cold start issue? Maybe. But unless every cylinder is way off I doubt it. I'd be more inclined to look at fuel system and IP timing.

[newoodguy78]

FWIW I've got a block heater that goes in a freeze plug on my 445. Even in the coldest of temperatures the most it needs to be plugged in is probably 2 hours and it starts like summer time. 
I do agree those circulating heaters are better but at the time I installed it Napas lead time was more than I was willing to wait. 
I also make every effort to keep it out of the wind when it's parked. Whether it's in an unheated greenhouse house or outside up against the shop using it as a windbreak, seems to really help. 

[Ljohnsaw]

I am clueless on diesel so please educate me. What do you mean by valve height? How does that potentially affect starting? 

When you say cold start issues and injector timing, I adjusted nothing. What should I look for? The SkyTrak has always been a hard start around freezing, it's that now it's a hard start first time.