Sleighs for hauling logs in deep snow conditions

[Simms95]

Wondering if anybody has experience using a snowmobile to haul logs using a bobsleigh setup.

I am cutting logs for a cabin in deep snow conditions (4ft+ of powdery snow, bottomless sometimes) so I am trying to figure out the best sleigh setup to move 20ft+ logs in these conditions.

Does anyone have experience fabricating metal bobsleighs? looking for a few tips, ive seen a lot of wooden ones over the years but im looking to make something more robust and repairable.

I am thinking of making the sleigh runners as wide and long as possible would be the best bet.

Thanks

[thecfarm]

What little I know, you will need to make a path first, if you don't know this. Let it freeze up and than start to haul logs.
Should be able to use the search function, but this member been at it for a while, but have not heard from him this year.

winter sled

Do some more searching by his user name. He's been at it for a while.
Someone will want to know, what kind of snowmobile you got?

[47sawdust]

Visit Quebecnewf on the forum his gallery is impressive,he and his family even more so.

[Simms95]

What little I know, you will need to make a path first, if you don't know this. Let it freeze up and than start to haul logs.
Should be able to use the search function, but this member been at it for a while, but have not heard from him this year.

winter sled

Do some more searching by his user name. He's been at it for a while.
Someone will want to know, what kind of snowmobile you got?

Thank you for the tips and I have very limited experience with this but you are right a path is absoulutely necessary, i usually run through with just the snowmobile a few times before even attempting to haul a sleigh, but i never really thought to do it a few days before cutting to let it harden up.

My snowmobile is a 2018 Skidoo Summit 850... definitely not an ideal machine for hauling wood but it is quite capable in deep snow on its own. Hope to purchase something with a wider track before next winter.

Visit Quebecnewf on the forum his gallery is impressive,he and his family even more so.

Thank you I will check him out!

[Quebecnewf]

Anything I can do to give you a hand just let me know .

PM me with any questions 

Been doing this for 30 years now . Still lots to learn but I have some of it figured out 

Quebecnewf 

[Simms95]

Figured I would add a couple photos of the plan I came up with;

Set up for 12-14 foot logs with drawbars attached, can be seperated to accomodate longer logs, just makes it harder for turning.

The front set of bobs swivel for turning, the back set will have a lockable swivel for swinging the rear end through tighter trails when necessary.

Horns are removable for easier loading, most of sled constructed from 1/4 steel flat bar or 2.5x2.5x1/2 HSS. Tow bars are 3/8 Flat bar with 1 inch roundstock through the front of runners.

Runners are 5 ft x 6inchs in the front, 6 ft x 6 inchs in the rear,  4 inch flat bar riding on top of 3/8 "teflon" not sure the technical term. Debating on making the teflon 8 icns wide instead of 6 for some extra float.

The width of the whole set-up matches the width of my snowmobile skis. Currently have it about half welded up, will post some pics when complete. 


 

 

[Quebecnewf]

Your on the right track for sure . I don't like the tow bars connected to the tips of  the sleighs better if there connected at least a foot back along the side of the runner .

That's just me . You see lots of setups where they are connected to the tips .

I still say that flat plastic sheet sleds beat those bob sleigh's hands down . I've built and used both . 


See my gallery 

Quebecnewf  

[snowstorm]

A summit is not the right sled for this job. You will end up breaking something. At the very least belts at $200 each. And what would you use for a hitch. There isn't a lot to attach it to on a mountain sled. A old alpine with a low range would work

[snowstorm]

A fan cooled motor is better for this job by far. Like was said pack the trail a day or more in advance and let the snow set up. I have a Polaris assault and wouldn't think of trying to yard wood with it. A Polaris titan would be the answer 20by 155 track a rad with a cooling fan 800 cc

[Hilltop366]

I helped make a wood and iron set once, having little experience with snowmobiles and none with sleds I would say that there were two things on the sled that I would have never thought of until it was too late.

You may already know these but I thought it was worth mentioning.

One was a two piece hitch that slid back and forth a few inches with a spring between them, this was to let the snowmobile get a "head start" before the sled moved kind of like towing with a rope  vs a chain.

The second was a place to hook a short chain that went around the ski(s) that you would put on to slow the sled down when going down a hill loaded to prevent the log from shoving the snowmobile out of control.

[Kodiakmac]

I'm thinking about all the experimenting we did as youngsters towing things (often us) behind skidoos.  We figured out one thing:

A toboggan or an old car hood slid along all surfaces better than a sleigh

[Southside]

I have seen truck hoods used as a sled very successfully, especially getting ice shacks off in the spring. In one case it was a brand new hood, but it was a cheaper option than loosing the shack through the ice. 

[doc henderson]

to make it more complex, (prob. not your goal) you could leave the front sled the same but make a crisscross connection so the rear sled can articulate and help you steer.  you do not want it having to slide sideways to turn or it may steer your sled, depending on the weight.  

[doc henderson]

 

 

 

 

 

 



lots of good ideas from the old stuff.  a few years back up at the pig roast with the family.  at a UP logging museum.

[Quebecnewf]

 

 This is the setup I've been using for the last 10 years .

Graduated to this from kometick and bob sleigh .

Quebecnewf 

[Simms95]

Your on the right track for sure . I don't like the tow bars connected to the tips of  the sleighs better if there connected at least a foot back along the side of the runner .

That's just me . You see lots of setups where they are connected to the tips .

I still say that flat plastic sheet sleds beat those bob sleigh's hands down . I've built and used both .


See my gallery

Quebecnewf  

 This is the setup I've been using for the last 10 years .

Graduated to this from kometick and bob sleigh .

Quebecnewf

Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.

Since im already welding it up I'll stick with the current design, but if I run into any issues hauling it ill bust out the grinder and try moving that back

I'll have a 2ftx10ft piece of plastic left over from my runners so i may experiment with that to try and make some sort of plastic sled, but this seemed like the best option to me for logs around 24ft. 

I see pictures all the time of sleds loaded full of 8 ft logs, I figure not much weight difference between 4 or 5 large 8 foot logs and 1 20+ footer but I could be mistaken.

[Simms95]

A summit is not the right sled for this job. You will end up breaking something. At the very least belts at $200 each. And what would you use for a hitch. There isn't a lot to attach it to on a mountain sled. A old alpine with a low range would work

A fan cooled motor is better for this job by far. Like was said pack the trail a day or more in advance and let the snow set up. I have a Polaris assault and wouldn't think of trying to yard wood with it. A Polaris titan would be the answer 20by 155 track a rad with a cooling fan 800 cc

I totally agree! I've reinforced the rear tunnel and added a heavy duty rear bumper meant for towing, but still not the ideal rig.

Im ordering a new Skandic 900 ACE with 24inch wide track; Most popular machine in this area for this type of work, im just working with what I have for now, when I bought the summit 5 years ago I never dreamed id be doing this with it.

Not much dealer support for Polaris in my area unfortunately, same shop sells Polaris Arctic Cat and Yamaha.  I grew up riding them until I was about 18 but the last one gave me issues.

[Simms95]

I helped make a wood and iron set once, having little experience with snowmobiles and none with sleds I would say that there were two things on the sled that I would have never thought of until it was too late.

You may already know these but I thought it was worth mentioning.

One was a two piece hitch that slid back and forth a few inches with a spring between them, this was to let the snowmobile get a "head start" before the sled moved kind of like towing with a rope  vs a chain.

The second was a place to hook a short chain that went around the ski(s) that you would put on to slow the sled down when going down a hill loaded to prevent the log from shoving the snowmobile out of control.

Thank you for the advice!





Heres a rough idea of the hitch setup, pretty much exactly like you said,Several Valve springs from an old 350 stacked together.

I've heard of the chains being called "drugs" but I completly forgot about them, thanks for the reminder!

[Simms95]

to make it more complex, (prob. not your goal) you could leave the front sled the same but make a crisscross connection so the rear sled can articulate and help you steer.  you do not want it having to slide sideways to turn or it may steer your sled, depending on the weight.  

Thank you Doc for the ideas and sharing the pictures!

These are pretty much an identical setup to the red sleigh just without the wooden box on top, if everything goes to plan they should articulate at all the same places. The two pieces of square tubing that are horizontal are only attach with a pin in the middle so the top one swivels on the bottom, and the 2 sleds are connected with a pin hitch so it can turn there too.

From what i've see having the front articulate is most important, as it will allow all the front runners to turn and follow the snowmobile, otherwise you would be dragging sideways to turn. Then the Logs pull the rear sled in the right direction, but both sleds are set up to swivel and lock so whatever combination is required should be doable.

Theres also a inch wide piece of teflon goes the full length below the wide part which acts as a ski rod would on a snowmobile to keep everything running straight and prevent it from slipping sideways

[Simms95]

I'm thinking about all the experimenting we did as youngsters towing things (often us) behind skidoos.  We figured out one thing:

A toboggan or an old car hood slid along all surfaces better than a sleigh

Totally agree with you, a lot more surface area floats alot better, but my issue was extending that out to 20-30 feet. The ridge pole and purlins are actually 32 feet long. 

I have seen truck hoods used as a sled very successfully, especially getting ice shacks off in the spring. In one case it was a brand new hood, but it was a cheaper option than loosing the shack through the ice.

Removable Truck Bed Liner works very good as well; But ill have 100+ logs to haul 2-3km im not sure how well something like that would hold up to repeated trips

[doc henderson]

I like the design, and assume both the front and rear can articulate at the cross beam/axle?  It looks as designed that the rear sled will track to the inside on a curve like a goose neck.  if the hitch/pivot were moved back it may tack closer to the path of the front sled.  I know some trailers crisscross chains to help the rear wheel turn counter to the front to swing around corners.  will love to see it in action.  how soon to completion?

[Quebecnewf]

For long logs the bob sleighs are a better rig for sure. You need to keep your path as straight as possible . 24 ft logs in a crooked path will cause a problem with whatever you plan to tow them with . 

Post pics when you get at it 

Quebecnewf 

[Simms95]

I like the design, and assume both the front and rear can articulate at the cross beam/axle?  It looks as designed that the rear sled will track to the inside on a curve like a goose neck.  if the hitch/pivot were moved back it may tack closer to the path of the front sled.  I know some trailers crisscross chains to help the rear wheel turn counter to the front to swing around corners.  will love to see it in action.  how soon to completion?

Yes both articulate! in total there are 4 pivot points through the setup: The hitch between sleds and snowmobile, both log bunks, and the hitch between front and rear sled. Only 3 of these would really be usable with Logs on as the middle hitch point becomes solid after you span logs across the sleds 

I think you are totally correct about the rear sled tracking inside of a curve; Not sure if this problem would be the same when logs are spanned across, as Id assume the log would force the rear sled to go where the front is pulled as long as the rear pivot is locked, but we'll have to try it out and go back to the drawing board if it becomes an issue, i think the rear more so skids through a turn as opposed to the skis turning, which is why its common to just have the front sled pivot.

I've seen a couple sleigh setups now with the criss cross chains, and it seems theres either a chains or a hitch bar but never both and the biggest issue with chains is there is nothing to stop the rear sled from slamming into the front sled when slowing/stopping while empty. But, If I want to change things up though im sure it would only be about 30 minutes to swap the bar for chains.

As far as a completion timeline, hopefully in the next week or 2 it should be done I think its about 50%; Working on it at my buddies shop so limited to evenings when we are both not working. Its also our first time doing any project like this using steel instead of wood, learning to weld is slowing us down for sure, and I had no idea the amount of grinding I would have to do but im hooked. Slowing us down a little more is using a 20A welder on a 15A breaker, 1/4" steel is pretty much the limit of my buddies machine so were having to weld about an inch or 2 at a time before we have to let the circuit cool off.

[doc henderson]

there are problems no matter what you choose.  if you do a crisscross, then you need a front to back beam so the crisscross only steers, but then with hills and terraces, you get in a bind.  the logs will bind the top half of the gear, and you need the lower half to articulate opposite each other.  you are half way there so just let us know how it goes.  you can make changes as needed for the better, (if needed).  thanks.  good luck.

[Southside]

Just looked up that Skandic 900 - WOW   they have come a long way from what I remember of those.  The ones I knew were a cheap, great, lightweight, fishing sled.  Take it places the Mach1 had no business going.  Not so sure about the light weight part anymore, but wow!