Used Equipment price “rants”

[Pulpwoodpete]

Anyone else seeing the prices turn absolutely retardant lately on 80-90s used processors and bunchers and skidders with 20,000+hours all clapped out? I watch auctions and bid on some machines see 8,000$ machine go for 20k. I run powersaw ctl and skid alone "forwarder single bunk" not gunna say names but these businesses are buying these machines 15-20-30,000$ and turn around throw some crapy paint on it and want 60-75,000$ I go look at these machines too and frustrates me. Trying to make it in this world and it's pretty tough to go mechanically. Your  1978 iron mule snapped in half ain't worth 30,000 moron. WOOOF RANT OVER

[stavebuyer]

Agree on the insane prices; but looks like much of the "blame" needs to be placed with whoever is doing the buying at those prices.

[SwampDonkey]

There's a pile of desperation I'd have to say. Most loggers I know are not tycoons with money to throw around. So if you want to play stupid, you're gonna get bit, hard. ;D

[Pulpwoodpete]

Hahahahahahaha definitely agree on both there. Go look at machines and I always tell the seller after I notice major issues with the equipment. Buyyyy alotttttttt of power saws for 60,000$ and lots of gas and fuel. And walk away. At this point I think I've made more money with a power saw then it would even be worth trying to go mechanical harvester. With everything being so expensive  Less problems. Very learyyy about going mechanicalized hopefully someone on here has a little input on it just starting again this year. Was working for a big clearing outfit got sick of bouncing from state to state. I wanna go the buncher route and pile then go in and powersaw logs and go back for pulp later. But summer time running power saw I can really put the wood on the ground. This past winter up north here with a snow fall of 300" Trudgen threw waist deep snow just me running saw and skidding got 1 full Michigan double of logs. 1 full Michigan double of pulp. and over a Michigan single of mix logs and bolts and pulp. From January threw February. No pay threw them months had to stop my operation and go hand fell for a buncher slasher crew in hills where the buncher couldn't go just to get paid to keep my operation going. 

[stavebuyer]

You are still a young fella. Soon as the log market downturns and interest rates rise that "fool's gold" will be bought at scrap pricing. I'd wager that day is not too far off. Until then it is time to be a seller and not a buyer.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Agree on the insane prices; but looks like much of the "blame" needs to be placed with whoever is doing the buying at those prices.

Stave buyer makes a good point.   I know sometimes you need equipment "yesterday" and waiting is no option, but if you can hold off nows a good time to not buy unless you find a good deal you like.     I'm looking over a TJ 225 a friend wants to sell.   He is thinking over his price and I am thinking on my offer.   I'll be both pleased and surprised if we end up in the same library let alone on the same page. :

[mike_belben]

The dilution of the dollar is causing all wealthy foreign dollar holders to cash out of it before they lose any more purchasing power on dollars from the certain future rounds of printing. so they send it back to america for things that can go on trucks trains and boats and mailed back. The entire world is doing this simultaneously.  


Thus new equipment to the onesie twosie american consumer isnt available because the 5sie 10sie rich customers abroad take precedence.  So the domestic guy with immediate need and good credit is buying used at new prices.  The unfortunate issue is that the money supply doubled so the $10k machine really is a 20k machine now at fair value and $25k with bidder fever.  

The worse news is that this bubble will pop (making for some firesale deals if youve got the cash) but it wont fix the inflation much.  When interest hit 20% in 1975 and 81 or 82ish, it stalled inflation briefly but did not roll the country back to 1967 prices.  


The time to splurge on iron was 10 yrs ago.  If you didnt you missed the boat.  Focus on reducing your liabilties to endure the shipwreck that is ahead.


Down here pulp is on quota if youre somebody and shut off if you arent. pallet is dropping another $5/ton friday to slow the flow as they are about full.   Diesel is $5 and freight charges and laborer wages is up.   Whats the sense in paying a new mortgage for higher production into a constricting system?  It is a road to disaster.  

The only ones who will survive the coming crash are the ones who dont need the money.  Expenses will be sinking ships on every corner soon (and then we will have to hear about all those people needing emergency bailouts.)

Save your money, a sharp buyers market is on the way.  

Theres never been a better time to sell your old junk at top dollar, take a job and pay off your debts.  Dont be fool enough to think your credit cards wont up the rate when the fed goes up 10%

[Pulpwoodpete]

Thank you mike, this is the absolute answer I was kinda looking for here. Now my little cry baby rant is over and see a different perspective on the whole picture. I'm going to continue to stay low over head. Powersaw and crusty old forwarder that treats me very well. It burns 5 gallons a fuel and the powersaw Is my bread winner. Don't owe nothing on my machine. Treat it nice and gets wood out. I'll stick to my little 10-40 acre parcels and shut up now hahaha have a great day you guys thanks for the rude awakening haha ohh yea stay safe out there! 

[mike_belben]

There are simply no guarantees in life.  Theres no guarantee that even when doing everything right you will succeed or someone doing everything wrong will fail. You may stay frugal on foot and get hurt while the guy who goes big on malinvested credit may actually slip through the cracks of market cycles.  We just never know.

The absolute hardest part is not to be jealous of someone elses possessions.  Rich people commit suicide too.  

Find a ray of sunshine in your life and cling to it for as long as you can. Happiness and contentment is the real richness everyone is so desperately scratching away at. It doesnt register on a tax return.  Which is good because if it did theyd tax that too.  So there's something to be happy about, no one has found a way to tax happiness.  May as well indulge. How many sunsets have you and that crusty forwarder enjoyed together?  Probably more sunsets than blown hoses.  And you can take the sunsets with ya after this life. 

[charles mann]

Its not just the logging industry. Im seeing people charging 2-3x the going price for the same junk, 1-2 yrs ago and seeing people wanting someone to pay them to haul off their junk. Iv been looking for some surplus equipment and parts but being outbid 4-5x the going prices from several yrs ago as well. The big guys are buying high and selling high. I hope they can find a way to feast on their overpriced scrap. 

[BargeMonkey]

I read this post today in between getting loaded and Mike basically hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately iron prices are somewhat regional, what works or sells here isn't the same as Skeans, if you get what I mean. Recently at the last 2 auctions smaller excavators, low hour 2-3yr old machines brought 10k+ more than new, a clapped out 490E / 120 four roller that sold for 40k 10yrs ago is still bringing 40k now.


 I know flipping iron isn't logging 😆 but use this buncher for an example. Friend of mine literally had the paperwork done, his trade looked at, another guy walked in and offered the dealer 30k MORE with no trade. GONE....Your not going to win right now on certain stuff, guys talk about cheap iron coming with an economic downturn but I don't personally believe it, the low hour 10yr old stuff just isn't out there.

[nativewolf]

On this I would agree.   The pricing today for used machines is so crazy that I can't understand why people don't buy new.  

to the OP- have you looked at a piece of new equipment financed by the manufacturer?  What were you trying to buy? 

[mike_belben]

because new equipment cost 3 houses and no one wants to work 3 lifetimes to maybe pay for it just as its fully smoked. 

[TroyC]

Agree on the insane prices; but looks like much of the "blame" needs to be placed with whoever is doing the buying at those prices.

Was at Costco looking yesterday. Insane prices on seafood. Told my friend the only thing gonna bring these ridiculous prices down is when people stop buying. A lobster tail is nice, but really, 25.00 and you still have to cook it? Do you really 'need' a lobster tail? Try eating something else for awhile and when demand goes down so will prices.

[wisconsitom]

Just inked deal on Norse winch, product due in May.  Dealer has six in size I want ordered, mine is last of six to be spoken for.

Dealer states, "no more until 2023....with big price jump".

[Log-it-up]

It would be crazy myself to consider buying something new, especially in the logging industry in my part of the world at least. 
Skidder roughly 350k it would be really hard to pay for that hand cutting so then you go out and get your self a buncher your going to drop 4 to 5 hundred thousand on one of those there now you have the problem of keeping the skidder feed and nows there's all this wood piled up on the landing your in belt deep now so might as well sing the paper again loader slasher for another 250ish thousand , around a million dollars sitting on the landing 
Now you got all this wood sitting on the landing that's worth a pee hole in the snow until it's moved to a mill do  you wait for a truck or buy one at 275k 
So I understand buying used equipment but even if you bought a good deal on used from the stuff above your still in it for 4-5 hundred thousand that's a lot of money that brings me to my next point 

  When I started on my own 8 or 9 years ago my grandfather handed me a spec sheet from a mill from 1982 about the time he stopped cutting timber,select pine at that time was $340 per thousand #1 $325 #2 $300 ( at the time if I remember right current prices where 25 dollars more than that) he said you sure you want todo this I said yes just bought a skidder got no choice 
Then asked what I paid for it 20k (it was a 440c) I thought he was going to tip over he told me that's what they where going for back back in the 80s wish me luck and said your crazy 
I'll keep my sanity with low over head and working by my self and peace and tranquility of being in the woods buts that's my path and I don't knock down anyone for going different rout 

[Firewoodjoe]

Show me a forwarder in good working order for cheap. You won't find one. Show me a good working pickup for cheap you won't find one. Show me a cheap car good on gas you won't find one. It's been this way for two years. Welcome to have you join us. 😁

[mudfarmer]

what, you guys don't want a $100k harvester with 15k hours that is old enough to drink? :D  (this is real)

[Magicman]

It's the same situation with used farm tractors.  The value is for non-common rail (no electronics) engines.  The normal is for older tractors to cost more now than they cost new. 

[Log-it-up]

When I first got my license I would buy a pick for 2-3 hundred bucks drive it for a year (maybe) then drop it of at the junk yard they new me by first name at the DMV 
I looked for a winter beater last fall and the search didn't last long  ,3-4 k got you one that was falling a part

[mike_belben]

now you guys know why i never ever sell anything.  

[hacknchop]

I thought about listing my truck in the used vehicles classifieds , Rhonda says can't sell that as used it's DONE.

[Firewoodjoe]

And it's not just used or anything in specific it's literally everything but beer! That's the only think I know that hasn't went up 20-30%. I was told a new harvester went up $100,000, they will buy my truck for more than I paid for it and my coffee went up from 5 to $8. And @mike_belben i don't think things will get cheap. I'm not saying it won't go down but I'd say down half of what it went up. Is what it is. 

[mike_belben]

Cheap on the showroom floor, no.  Without contracting the money supply (which would cause the federal government to default on its obligations and thus cannot happen) new goods can never come down in price.  

However when the bubble pops and the constables are packing people's stuff up there will be plenty of today only deals.  Barges phone will be a ringin and he will name the price. Buyer of last resort always does. 

[mike_belben]

Cel phones are better and cheaper now.  Consumer electronics are the primary thing that have come down.  2 or maybe years ago my LG droid was $200 and a galaxy was above it.  My LG quit and i had to get another phone.  LG doesnt make them anymore but a better galaxy was $129.