Diesel pickup truck advice needed...

[Colonel428]

So I have a small firewood business that's kinda turned into a full time gig.  I'm considering buying a used diesel pickup truck.  It'll be my daily driver and used to deliver wood and pull my wood trailer (6×12), which is often.  I know absolutely zero about diesel trucks and any advice, recommendations and help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks, Steve.

[David B]

Been a diesel head over 20 years. Owned dodges, my brother owned chevys and fords, company owns fords. 


I assume you want 4x4 and Chevy independent front suspension doesn't hold up. Ford super duty 7.3 or dodge with the Cummins 5.9. Ford makes a better truck but Cummins might be a better engine, simpler anyway. With the Cummins get the manual trans. 

All the newer stuff is overcomplicated and over expensive. 

[Colonel428]

Thanks David.  What model years should I be looking at with the Ford and Dodge?

[YellowHammer]

You are going to get all kinds of answers, likes and dislikes, but here is my experience.

I have a sawmill and lumber business and had a 2007 Chevy 2500 Duramax/Allison transmission and sold it with 180,000 miles and it went to the shop for two new front axle spindles ($500 each) but other than that and never been to the shop for anything more serious than an oil change and transmission fluid change.  I now have a 2013 Chevy Duramax 2500 with 185,000 miles and it's never been to the shop for anything more serious than a diesel exhaust fluid issue and a wire that had chafed.  I also have a newer Ford F250 diesel and it has never been in the shop other than for oil changes.  All get used hard but not abused, hauling lumber and logs with a gooseneck trailer, towing but not hard off road use, although using 4WD regularly pulling heavy trailers out of muddy log yards and landings, and stuff like that.

I am a DOT driver and haul max loads, CDL cutoff at 26,000 lbs consistently, and also tow heavy boats for long ways.  Two weeks ago, 480 miles one way pulling a 10,000 boat.  Long, mid weight towing is really are hard on vehicles.  Up to the point I started buying diesels, 2007, I never had a pickup truck transmission survive for more than a few years, Ford or Chevy, and even a 2006 Chevy 2500 gas burner failed a transmission within a year.  So, diesels of both Ford and Chevy are that good.  I don't do Dodges, or older diesels of any type.

Mechanically, from my experience, both brands of later model Ford and Chevy trucks seem to be very reliable, and I cant tell a dimes worth of difference between either the Ford or Chevy from a mechanical reliability standpoint.  Each will have its little problems, but either will get to near 200,000 miles relatively trouble free.  From the interior, the Fords seem to have more cab room and are more up to date with technology, which I like.  Navigation systems, connectivity to my phone for hands free driving, etc which are important for my driving.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a used one with 50,000 miles in either brand, for a diesel pickup, that's barely broken in.  200,000 miles seems to be an inflection point where resale and reliability starts to drop off, I don't know, I always sell before then.    


 

[Corley5]

I used a Cummins Dodge and a 7.3 Ford in my firewood operation for years. I needed a replacement for the 7.3 powered 550 and got a v10 powered 550. I was hesitant but needed a truck. I wouldn't buy a diesel again.

[barbender]

 I'd say it depends on how low mile of a diesel you can afford. You have to remember that many diesel engine repair issues can set you back $5000-$10,000 on the newer electronic diesels. So if you buy a diesel truck for $13,000, put 10,000 miles on it and have to put injectors and a head gasket in it, will you be able or willing to swallow that $10K repair bill?

 My point is that once many diesels come down to an "affordable" price, you're really rolling the dice. 

 For reliability and simplicity, any 12 valve Cummins is great but you're looking at trucks that are over 25 years old. And if they are in decent shape, people think they're made of gold. 
  
 The 7.3 Powerstroke in Fords were a reliable engine as well. The 6.0 Powerstroke that followed had a lot of issues. The 6.4 and especially 6.7 are supposed to be good.

 The Chevy Duramax is good overall. 

 If you aren't familiar with diesels, if you don't absolutely need the towing power I'd honestly stay with a gas engine. Some of the newer gas engines have pretty good horsepower. I remember one outfit I worked for, the foreman had a Chevy one ton with a 6.5 diesel, that routinely towed trailers around #10,000. It was replaced with a Chevy 2500 with a 6.0 gas, and that pickup towed the 10K trailer better than the 6.5 diesel did🤷

 

[moodnacreek]

On the new or almost new h.d. pick up trucks that come in the yard now most are gas. There have been too many problems with the diesels since '03 and now the cost of fuel.  The duramax may be the exception as some guys have gone 400,000 miles with these.

[Southside]

The '06 and '07 Durmax engine code LBZ is the best one they made.  The newer ones have more HP, but that engine is pre re-gen, and all the kinks got ironed out of the first two generations.  Maintenance costs are very reasonable and they are extremely durable.  

[hedgerow]

I started with diesel pickups when Dodge came out with the 5.9 Cummins in them. Got tired of the body's falling apart on the Dodge's and moved on to the Ford's with the 7.3. In 2005 bought a Ford with the 6.0 in twenty thousand miles they put four engines in the pickup. I ran it to 2011 warranty was just about out. Bought a Ford with the new big block V8 gas and it got better fuel mileage than the 6.0 diesel did. I will never own a diesel pickup again. Every one I know that has the newer ones have had problems with the smog equipment. The guys I know that still run diesels trade them before the warranty has ran out. A lot of farmer friends of mine have went back to gas pickups for hauling and towing. 

[sawguy21]

I have an 05 Ram 2500HD diesel purchased in 2010. It is showing its age but still serves me well with almost 250,000 miles (originally purchased in the U.S.) My late wife and I travelled all over western Canada and U.S. pulling a fifth wheel, more than enough power and fuel mileage was great. I have replaced the water pump, a/c clutch and heater core. That is it outside of regular maintenance.
Oil changes and filters are not cheap but are not done as often so that's a wash. If I buy another pickup it will be a diesel. The ones to stay away from are the GM 6.5, underpowered as well as unreliable, and the Ford 6.0/6.4. I don't know about your area but clean well maintained trucks are very hard to find here. Just my $.02 CDN. Ymmv.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I own 2 7.3 powerstroke trucks and have owned a few others in the past.

Im on the hunt for a nice crew cab gasser truck and ditch both diesels.

The diesels have more torque and get better mileage towing... but the cost of fuel these days offsets the mileage difference. Then add on top the cost of diesel fuel filters, oil changes, 2nd batteries, etc and the gas jobbers are more economically for guys not hauling huge mileage every year. Add to the fact that a gasser will start in any weather with ease.

[firefighter ontheside]

I've had a 2002 Ford with 7.3 and put about 130,000 miles on that.  I bought it with 8,000 miles on it.  I knew of the issue that those motors had with the cam sensor, so I carried one with me.  When it went out on the highway, I was able to change it out and be back on my way.  If you want a 7.3 then the 99-2002 is what I would recommend.  100,000 miles is not a lot of miles on those trucks.  

Next i bought a new 2008 F250 with the 6.4.  I never had a problem with the engine, other than the annoyance of the DPF.  If it is not deleted, then I would not really recommend the 6.4.  At about 160,000 miles I deleted the DPF and it ran great, but tended to make a little black smoke  because it wasnt being filtered.  I put a total of 169,000 on that truck and then sold it to my neighbor who still drives it daily after 5 years.  I think he has about 240,000 miles now and it's still going strong as far as I know.  

In 2017 I bought a new F350 with the 6.7.  That truck has the DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) and its much better to deal with than the DPF that didn't have DEF.  Adding DEF to the truck a few times a year is not an issue at all.  Essentially you add DEF when you change the oil.  I love this truck and have 88,000 miles on it now.  With the price of diesel I have cut way back on using it though and drive around a high miles Subaru instead.  I may someday switch back to gas trucks for the reasons mentioned by other guys, but that may be 10 years at the rate I'm putting miles on this truck.

In general, diesels are expensive to change the oil.  The powerstrokes hold 15 quarts.  Don't use cheap oil.  I recommend Shell Rotella 15w 40.  Change fuel filters on schedule without question.  Consider adding some additive to the fuel with cetane at least occasionally.  I don't do that as much as I did when I was new to diesels.  Change the air filter regularly.  The turbos need a lot of air.  My 7.3 didn't like to start when it was down in the 20s.  I plugged the block heater in regularly in the winter.  The 6.7 does not need to be plugged in until its close to zero.  I have started it at neg 19 with no issue and not plugged in.  Was at a hotel with no access to an outlet.  

Do you have any specific questions about owning a diesel?

[scsmith42]

I've owned quite a few diesel trucks over the past 20 years.  All have their pro's and cons.  My suggestion is to stay away from the 6.4 Fords (lots of head problems) and the 6.0's (although 6.0's aren't bad if you spend the $ to have them "bulletproofed".

From an emission standpoint, any truck newer than 2007 will have a DPF (diesel particulate filter) and require more emission maintenance.  

I'd suggest a 3/4 ton 4WD as a great all-around truck.  3.73 gearing will assist with fuel mileage.

If you have the budget, the newer diesel's with the 10 speed transmissions get some great fuel mileage.

[customsawyer]

I've had lots of diesel pickups. Used to put over 80,000 hard miles a year on one. Now I don't hardly put 10000 easy miles on one. The main thing I'm going to add is you mentioned your trailer being a 6x12. This trailer won't need a diesel pickup to pull it. Unless you plan on stepping up the size of your trailer then stick to a 3/4 ton gas and it will be cheaper in the long run. My next pickup won't have a diesel as I don't need them anymore and it is just a big expense when they aren't working to earn the bacon.

[Walnut Beast]

Gas vehicles have plenty of problems. I'll take a turbo diesel any day over a gasser even if it costs more at the pump. Cummins and Hercules diesels I've had over the years zero problems.

[barbender]

 Older mechanical diesels and newer electronic ones, especially with emissions equipment, are really in two seperate categories. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Gas motors do have issues. But parts and knowledge are available to fix them at nearly every corner parts store or local mechanic. For instance a GM 6.0L gasser can be serviced with a $20 Bluetooth scanner and $200 worth of hand tools. If it blows up you can grab one from a junkyard for $200 and swap it in 4 hours.

Many shops don't touch newer diesels as they don't have anyone schooled in diagnosing them or have the desire to invest in expensive scanners to 2way communicate with them. Start replacing a CP4 pump, injectors, etc and that diesel can rack up a higher repair bill than an entire gas truck.

 

[Colonel428]

Thanks all.  You've certainly given me a lot to consider and mull over.  

[barbender]

Even worse are the shops that think that they are qualified to service diesels, and don't have a clue. I've seen them throw thousands in parts at a problem and solve nothing.

[YellowHammer]

It's been my experience that the engine was rarely the weak point anyway, the transmission was what left me in the driveway more than once, or stuck dead in the middle of a busy intersection with a 26 foot boat on the hitch.  Or being convoy towed 60 miles back home, both truck and trailer when the trans dies.  Or stuck on a half mile long bridge with blue smoke coming out of the transmission.  Or the clutch pedal going to the floorboard at a stoplight.  All catastrophic transmission failures that required towing.  Never one true on road engine failure, with either gas or diesel pickup.

The diesels generally come with the heavier duty transmissions.  The Allison/Duramax is arguably the most reliable combination made.  I've never had any transmission issues with any diesel pickup truck, Chevy or Ford, whereas transmission issues were the number one cause of me calling a tow truck, when I drove gas trucks.  

[chevytaHOE5674]

Any transmission can be killed. Plenty of Allison 1000s, 68RFE, 5R110s have been killed behind diesels over the years just like their gasser counterparts. 

[customsawyer]

When my 2011 Ford 6.7 diesel dropped a glow plug tip in it I was heading down the road. 16K and three months later I had it up and running again. This was pre covid so I would hate to know how long it would take to get a engine now. Another thing that you will want to take into account, as to the type of truck you get, is how many miles a year you will be pulling this small trailer fully loaded. The more miles the more I would lean towards a diesel. There are plenty of guys around here that buy the top of the line diesel pickups and never even hook them to a trailer. They look really cool down at the coffee shop though.

[SawyerTed]

The "daily driver" part complicates the gas versus diesel conversation when mixing a work truck with daily driver.  It's kind of like going camping riding a motorcycle.  There's choices and consequences.

I don't want another diesel daily driver.  Too expensive no matter how you cut it. If I were to have the luxury of a daily driver and a work truck, the work truck would definitely be a diesel.  But the work truck must carry its weight - make enough to justify its use. 

In the final analysis that's the question to be answered.  Can a diesel daily driver be used as a work truck and justify the expense?  It depends on the user.  I couldn't do it.  Others can. 

[firefighter ontheside]

My diesel used to be my daily until we kept my wifes old Subaru when she bought a new one.  I drove it to work a lot and used my truck when off work.  That alone saved 3000 miles a year.  Now that diesel is so high I only drive the truck when I need it or about once a week just to keep the batteries charged.  

We have a 36' fifth wheel that I wouldn't want to tow with a gasser.  Maybe the new 7.3 Ford gasser could do it, but the 6.2 Ford V8 can barely tow an enclosed trailer weighing maybe 6000 lbs.  That's my situation at the FD.  We bought an F350 which is fine just driving around, but it is terrible for towing.  I honestly bought my first diesel in 2003 because diesel was so cheap.  Then because I had the truck, we bought our first camper.  Then I started getting into logs and a sawmill and needed the truck for other things.

[barbender]

 I will say, my experience with Ford gas engines, especially the 5.4, has not been positive when you hook a a trailer on behind them. I can't believe they put such an underpowered engine in 3/4 and one ton pickups.