My Stihl Nightmare

LeeB · May 04, 2023, 12:09:48 AM

Not sure I have the timeline right on all of this. You said the saw never ran right from the time you bought it and you had taken it to several dealers in hopes of getting it going without much luck, then it seized up on you about three years ago. You had it repaired and it made two weeks before burning up again. Was it repaired again after this or has this all been three years ago?

Spike60 · May 04, 2023, 05:23:44 AM

So now you turned it into a poll for best brand? Really? This is becoming a tough read. Most of this post will come off wrong, but here goes.

Your belief in, and now search for, brand infallibility is in large part why you are spinning your wheels here. There's no such thing, and there never will be. Your frequently mentioned belief in stihls being close to perfect caused you to ignore what your eyes and ears were telling you. These repetitive "but it's a Stihl" comments are testimony to that and it's clouding your judgement. (Not to mention nauseating. Sorry, but I'm a Husky guy.)

The problem here is the dealer, not stihl. Sounds to me that the saw had an issue out of the box. It happens. What SHOULD have been done was to set that saw down and grab you another one that ran properly. The defective saw could then be corrected and sold to someone else, running properly. That saw never should have gone out the door like that.

Bonehead move number 2 for that clown was his approach to warranty. The incidents that began at time of purchase CLEARLY demonstrate the saw had issues from the get go that you were both witness to. To then try and blame you for bad gas, wrong gas, running the saw on the wrong day of the week, etc is really lame. As far as getting approval from stihl, a dealer sometimes needs to go to bat for his customers. That requires tearing down the saw and finding the defect, and explaining it to Stihl tech. He may not be capable of doing that. This guy instead took the bat and whacked you over the head with it.

To sum up my rant, you don't need another brand, you need another dealer.

Spike60 · May 04, 2023, 05:34:46 AM

Quote from: backwoodsboy on May 03, 2023, 05:26:21 PM

The way they market their products, through non-employed dealers, is a clever way to avoid taking responsibility for screw ups.

This is what I'm getting at. You've turned this thread into your personal crying towel. You've had a bad experience. Life is full of them. I hope your able to move on from it.

backwoodsboy · May 04, 2023, 08:54:34 AM

Finding the carb screws turned out beyond specs is a clue. Likely, as you said, it was done as an attempt to compensate for a leak. That explains much.
Finding that leak(s) is my goal now. Should be a lot of fun having done it once before three days ago! But, it's got to be done. Here we go!

I have to learn how to perform testing. If I can find and fix the leak, if indeed that has been the underlying problem, that will be a relief; an encouraging milestone pushing me on to get this baby running again. Otherwise, I can put her back together with new parts and be in the same fix I was in before.
There's pressure testing by adding air and vacuum testing by removing it. It must be sealed up in either case. I've read what to me are a bit hazy directions how to do this. I'll have to study an authoritative, detailed set of instructions to get it right.

backwoodsboy · May 04, 2023, 09:03:02 AM

Quote from: LeeB on May 04, 2023, 12:09:48 AM
Not sure I have the timeline right on all of this. You said the saw never ran right from the time you bought it and you had taken it to several dealers in hopes of getting it going without much luck, then it seized up on you about three years ago. You had it repaired and it made two weeks before burning up again. Was it repaired again after this or has this all been three years ago?

Close. In the past several years since it was rebuilt, it needed work, never running right, often not starting. The recent phenomenon of the past 5 weeks or so, represents ongoing and additional struggles ending in the complete meltdown. Thanks for asking.

backwoodsboy · May 04, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 03, 2023, 02:58:34 PM
Maybe I got suckered on my two Stihl saws . I never started or seen them start it. Just took them and they have been sitting for several months. But that’s about to change. We will see if I’m in the sucker club

If you know of a comprehensive set of instructions on how to test this baby for leaks, give me a holler. That's what I must figure out at this point. Seems there are 2 types of tests. 1 for pressure. 1 to find vacuum leaks. Then, there's tests for the top section and tests for the bottom. One experienced small engine repair specialist said he doesn't test for vacuum, but he may have meant only for the particular saw he was working on.
I looked at some of the pictures you posted. What an operation! Great equipment, nicely maintained, all kinds of projects. Very impressive.

bundy · May 04, 2023, 11:39:11 AM

There seems to be a loss in quality since Shindaiwa and Dolmar were bought up by Echo and Makita. Competition is good for consumers and keep everybody on their toes!

hedgerow · May 04, 2023, 12:49:19 PM

Quote from: Spike60 on May 04, 2023, 05:23:44 AM
To sum up my rant, you don't need another brand, you need another dealer.

Went threw this in 2005 on a JD tractor I had bought new. Tractor had issues when they unloaded off the truck at my farm. Ten trips to the dealer in a year and most of the issues hadn't be taken care of. Lots of talk to the corp folks. This dealer had not sold many of these models. I found a dealer 200 miles away that had sold many of this model of tractor and had dealt with a lot of the issues I was having. I hauled it 200 miles myself and they had it for three months and when I pickup it up the issues had been taken care of. There were a lot of service bulletin's and this dealer took care of them. When I pickup the tractor all the problem I had were taken care of and I ran the tractor the next five years with no issues. I then sold it as our operation had changed.

Jeff · May 04, 2023, 01:55:51 PM

I have removed the poll. Dont put it back.

Greenhighlander · May 04, 2023, 03:07:33 PM

This is 100% a dealer issue. Sadly it seems good ones are harder and harder to come by. So much so in my part of the world , that it has kept me from the new auto tune saws.
I own both Stihl and Husky saws, my closest garbage dealer sells both, and I firmly believe that the difference between the two is personal preference IE feel in your hands. They and Echo make great saws . All three also produce some problem children. Just like any large scale manufacturing. That is where dealer support is suppose to step in.

I can assure the OP that we all feel his pain as I am sure most of us have felt it at one time or another.

What I have taken from it is an excuse to learn to do something else for myself. With the right tools, and guidance from the knowledgeable folks here , I have more confidence in me being able to properly fix my saws then I do any of the dealers within a couple hours drive of me.

backwoodsboy · May 04, 2023, 11:34:55 PM

That's what I'm trying to do. Testing for leaks is my focus now. It isn't as clear how to do it as changing chains or combining your fuel with a 2 stroke oil mix. But, I hope to learn how it's done.
These lil monsters sure do produce some power and they pack a ton of capability for such a small package.
I am surprised how much I miss having it available to run. I feel like buying a new one just to have it by my side.

backwoodsboy · May 08, 2023, 12:49:42 AM

Will a carburetor vacuum/pressure test show leaks if the H and L and Idle adjustment screws are open? Should they be screwed closed before the test?
Thanks

barbender · May 08, 2023, 01:11:00 AM

I'll be honest, I can be a bit of a hack with some things so take my advice with a grain of salt. On my saw that had an air leak, I found it by starting it with the air cleaner cover off, and spraying carb cleaner or ether (I don't remember which) into suspect areas while listening for a change in rpms. The engine died when I sprayed by the carb boot, I checked the boot and it was as loose as can be- problem identified.

Your problem may or may not be as obvious. This is the low tech, cheap and dirty way of doing it. Obviously you'd have to rebuild your saw first to test it that way.

ladylake · May 08, 2023, 04:28:54 AM

I've used the spray method many times, fast and easy and works good if you can get the saw idling. Steve

DHansen · May 08, 2023, 07:36:47 AM

Carburetor is removed during vacuum and pressure testing. The vacuum and pressure test are not for locating internal carburetor problems. You need to remove carburetor and seal intake prior to vacuum and pressure test. Also remove muffler and seal exhaust port. Then proceed with test.

DHansen · May 08, 2023, 07:43:00 AM

I cut and old tire inner tube and put a section of the tube over each port, exhaust and intake. Then put heat shield Back on over exhaust and bolted down using washers as spacers. I made a small tin plate for intake. It worked great.

backwoodsboy · May 08, 2023, 08:48:32 PM

Hey!
Thanks guys for your ongoing support. Much appreciate your efforts to help me determine what's going on.

DHansen · May 09, 2023, 06:27:20 PM

Just to clarify, as far as applying vacuum and pressure, I remove spark plug and thread in a compression testing adapter. Remove valve core from the adapter hose. Attached Mighty Vac to adapter hose. Now if one wants to, there is a tool that threads into the spark plug hole and has a 1/4" nipple on the end that a vacuum hose attaches to. Hope that makes sense. Lots of good online videos that show how to do the vacuum and pressure test. I just did it my first time a couple weeks ago. Newbe here.

backwoodsboy · May 10, 2023, 12:27:17 AM

"...remove spark plug and thread in a compression testing adapter." ok

Quote from: DHansen on May 09, 2023, 06:27:20 PMRemove valve core from the adapter hose

Not sure on this part. Valve core?

Thanks

backwoodsboy · May 10, 2023, 12:40:15 AM

Thanks. Been thinking about a mid-size Echo with a 28" bar while I'm working on my baby. Don't want to stress the engine out, though, no matter what. I can't believe how badly I miss having my saw here with me in running shape. I just want to start it, clean it, check for problems. Start it again. Sharpen chains, clean the bar real good.

I'm withdrawing.

Fyrzowt · May 20, 2023, 09:15:35 PM

Quote from: backwoodsboy on April 22, 2023, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: Patrick NC on April 22, 2023, 12:13:14 PMThat was the main reason that my last saw and weedeater are husqvarna.

Yup. That's sort of my point. I won't buy another Stihl because of this lemon and the way they handled it. Which is a shame for me and them. They've lost a customer and I don't have a saw. I always held them in the highest regard because they earned my confidence.

I recently retired as a mechanic from a Stihl dealership.
Couple of points:
1. Any company can have a lemon, as has been stated.
2. ANY Stihl dealer should have the proper equipment to check for air leaks. This is basic equipment.
3. If you can't get a satisfactory response from your dealer, contact the regional Stihl rep. If you have a technical question that your mechanic can't answer, your rep should be able to put you in touch with a "trouble shooter" type person who can assist, either by phone or in person.
4. I obviously can't diagnose sight unseen, but it sure sounds like you had an air leak.
I have owned and used for many years both Husky and Stihl.
To me, it's like Ford vs Chevy - both are great. IMHO, echo comes in third.
I hope you get some resolution, I wouldn't necessarily give up on Stihl....yet.

booman · June 03, 2023, 07:19:09 AM

Just curious, where does this stand?

RetiredTech · June 10, 2023, 04:39:43 PM

I was wondering the same thing. Guess I should have read the last page before I tried to catch up.

Jbakelaar · August 08, 2023, 07:41:13 PM

He came to his senses and bought a Holzfforma for less than $350

You might think otherwise but I got several hundred hours on one, the G660 w 92ccs. 100% of that time has been milling in 95+ temps of SW Colorado.
Here's why. I bought a mid sized Stihl farmboss 20 years back and loved it. Pretty sure it's a MS271. Needed another saw for a second property and went to the local dealer. This was 3 years ago. Was told I had 2 weeks to try the saw out. Went with 181 thinking less is more for that application and hey I can run it and bring it back right?! That's what their guarantee promised. Well, it is way underpowered for my taste and the chain tensioner is all plastic components, a big departure from my Farmboss. So after 1 tank of gas and just a couple of days since buying it, I brought it back wanting to trade up for a 251. The dealer would not honor their guarantee, saying it had to be unused in order to return or exchange. Now you tell me, what guarantee for a saw, for a vehicle, for any *DanG thing is any good if you can only stare at the product in the box?
I immediately contacted Stihl's Customer Service. Bottom line and many hours of phone time later, Stihl didn't care and I was told they can't stop or police dealers - that my issue was with them and I had to resolve it with them.
So I am the not proud owner of this little saw, which is okay for limbing I guess.
So a couple of years later and now Stihl has lost a 1500$ + sale as I needed a milling saw and was in the game for a MS661. I would never have been willing to try an off-brand saw but after getting hosed on my previous Stihl purchase I was open to alternatives. Say what you will, but my expectations were near zero for the Chinese knockoff, and have been blown away!
I have thousands of boards feet including a deck, porch and loft - that give me all the satisfaction that I made the right call leaving Stihl behind.
I'm not saying it's right for you, just telling you what happened to me and what my experience has been w Stihl. BTW - I bought a second knockoff to have a 24 inch bar free for bucking without having to remove the 36" from the saw or the saw from the mill. So that's 3 grand of my hard earned cash they won't ever see. I'm probably going to buy an electric saw next year, and I can promise you what brand it will NOT be.
I hope the OP has gotten somewhere with his saw repair- the joy of milling is why I'm in this forum, and I wanted to let him know that there is also another path to sawdust if the repair is delayed or derailed. I read all 9 pages and couldn't believe no one else suggested this option, maybe I'm the oddball here but I'm confident in the results I've seen with my own two eyes and I just won't support a company that won't take responsibility for it's dealers or products.

lxskllr · August 08, 2023, 08:32:58 PM

Not sure what exact words your dealer told you, but I wouldn't expect to be able to straight up swap saws after using it. That can no longer be sold as new, and the dealer would be losing(or not making much) money on the deal. I know for sure I wouldn't pay full price for a saw I wasn't the first to put in wood.

I'm glad you're happy with your Chinese saw. Some people get lucky. Others, not so much. There's no way I'd recommend one unless someone was willing to make it a project, and didn't need to rely on it for their livelihood.