"expert" tubers

[barbender]

 Haha, "pith princess" I'll have to remember that one!

 I thought I made clear I don't consider the 2x4 girls to be "spandex sawyers", just that they are giving advice that is beyond their experience. 

[KenMac]

There is a channel from Florida I think where it's blatantly obvious what their intent is. There are a few more who are allergic to clothing also. Don't go by their sawing technique by any means!

[Andries]

Spandex sawyers and bikini excavator operators and pith princesses are all very successful business models and they know their business. 
They're click bait and eye candy,  and they do it very well. A business model as old as humanity. 
I'm not too ready to refer to them for milling advice though!
That reminds me, it's time I deleted my browser history.

[SawyerTed]

Yes, one of the girl's fanboys sent me down the right path (Thanks Ted :D) and I watched the 2x4 video and some snips of others. 

"Fanboy" is in the extreme end of where I am.  Yes I follow them a bit.  I've already agreed their technique and knowledge needs improving.  But the proof is they have both a successful sawmill business AND the YT thing going well. 
Seeing young entrepreneurs trying hard is a good thing.  Seeing young people willing and CHOOSING to do hard work is a good thing.
It's the retired teacher in me.  I recognize motivation when I see it.  
Those girls are young 20 ish, energetic and learning.  I also see a bit of the "teaching beyond their learning" for sure.  
They'll get there.  

[B.C.C. Lapp]

It's the Internet and it takes all kinds and your milage will vary.   But I got to wonder about a husband that would allow his wife or daughters to be seen as "click bait".    Not to disparage all the ladies doing work vids on YouTube. Some are serious and dressed for it.  It's the ones not dressed for much of anything I wonder about

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, I knew that 'fanboy' comment would draw you out. :D

But I am pretty much on the same page as you. The gal in the video was properly dressed for the job and was getting work done. When I see something like that I think maybe she reminds me of my daughter (who is a bit older, but still my little girl) and no, my mind doesn't focus on her physical 'attributes' but rather her message. I also agree that it is good to see young folks working and learning and moving forward with their skills. We all have stuff we have yet to learn, or re-learn. They are just at a different point in the curve.

 OTOH seeing the spandex crowd causes a pretty instant click away because I know they don't have a clue. If they did, they would be wearing clothes that give them some level of protection for their jobs. I have always wondered how spandex holds up against a sawblade that uncoils in an unexpected way? ;D

[barbender]

Not very well😂 I know because I often wear Milwaukee "spandex" nitrile palm gloves, things would be pretty tough if that's the material I was wearing for pants😁

[DocGP]

You know, I think we may be going about it the wrong way..  I bet if I posted a video in spandex, YT would pay be NOT to wear it again.

I can see it.  Rolling in the dough! 8) 8) 8)

And I do have respect for the (admin edit)  About my daughters ages and out there with cant hooks rolling logs that a large number of high school football players would be whining about.  They will learn the techniques.  So proud of them for not being afraid of hard work.

Doc

[terrifictimbersllc]

The very mention of Spandex and 4X4 Doug came sniffing his way back home.  :D

This might be right up there with Lassie Come Home.

[JD Guy]

I just asked Cedar if he was willing to wear spandex.

How is the dog bite healing?  8)

[caveman]

DUG, it's good to see you post.  If you start posting pictures or videos of you sawing in spandex, I'm going to have to find something else to occupy my leisure time other than the FF.  

[OlJarhead]

As a Youtuber I'm sorry I missed this one when it came out ;)

The trouble with YT is manyfold.  For example, it's easy to take a video, like Roberts, and assume it's about all logs.  It's not as he pointed out to me when I commented on it ;)  It's also easy to assume some girls are there to teach people something about sawmilling (not really).

YT is in it's basic form, entertainment.  In fact, outside of some outliers that get lots of views do to searches etc in the end, successful YT channels provide entertainment of some kind.  More often than not of the 'reality' type.  Meaning that most of the really successful channels (100,000 subscribers or more and definitely those who reach the 1 million range) tell a story more than anything else.  Even if the story is "I'm going to do this" then doing it and then "I did this" format which I often try to follow.

Yes, some of us do it to share with others what we've learned and few actually 'know it all' (actually NO ONE does).

The Yoga Pants channels and the 'two girls' I learned to ignore as they have nothing to do with what my channel is about.  They are selling soft porn in most cases tripple L etc, or at the least "we're girls and we do this" and their stuff isn't very good - I'll bet their audience is bored older men but hey, they are making good money so who am I to question them? ;)

As for money, don't be fooled, even small channels can make decent coin if they know what they are doing.  Sure, YT might only pay $5 per thousand views but a channel that gets 10,000 views per day makes $50/day and if they have affiliates and sponsors they can make ten times that.  Not saying they are, but they can.  A channel that gets 100,000 views a day...well you can do that math.  The money is less in YT though, and more in affiliate links and sponsorships -- few realize that or take advantage of it...

However, to do that they have to work many many hours (I often edit 8 hours per day) and again, it's not about the sawmilling for most, but rather the story.  Imagine working 8 hours a day editing to make just $50 a day?  Well I make about $5 a day so, why do it?  Right?  Also, subscribers don't mean anything after 500 other than a channels potential popularity.  What matters is views and long form views are worth way more than short form views.

The 'how to' channels (Roberts specially, and mine as well) have to find a balance to be successful.  As in "explain how to" and do it in such a way people factually watch more than 10-20% of the video.  Success means watch times that average 50% or better (so a video with a million views but only 10% watch time isn't great or a likely successful venture in the end).

Anyway, I'm going long here but if anyone wanted an inside look at youtube and what it takes I'm all to happy to answer.  I'm fulltime YT now.  Sawing will be for myself only and I'll continue to film that and attempt to make decent videos but I'll never be caught in Yoga pants!  (good thing too ;))

But remember, the vast majority of sawmilling channels are not about teaching you and I've found they are more often than not people who only got their sawmill just before starting to do YT.  In fact, some popular channels started sawing and youtubing together so not exactly the Hobby Hardwoods model ;)  Or Custom Sawyer who dabbled a little and decided he'd rather saw than film.

Filming take a LOT more work (Ask @Crossroads how often I change batteries etc and angles and how many cameras I run as he's been the recipient of my filming now a couple times)....it becomes more about how you make a youtube video than how you sawmill.

OH and I'm no sawmill expect!  I'm still learning from all of you, all the time.  I have less time to come here and learn mind you because I'm too budy editing my next video!  That takes a lot more effort and thinking (for me) than sawing does :D

[OlJarhead]

I should add that Doug Fir and Ponderosa Pine are very forgiving when it comes to splitting the pith and I've found that FOHC vs Boxed Heart in Pondo Pine is about a 50/50 split.  They both twist, both check etc and both don't.  I've not seen a benefit in that regards on either when milling D-Logs and have taken to milling them oversized in anticipation of having to resaw them again later as a real possibility.

I find straight logs make straight lumber and everything else is a crap shoot ;)  But I've also learned to put the bend in the face as much as possible and to keep the pith/heart in one board as much as possible.

And racing stripes on your sawmill is almost as good as yoga pants on the operator :P

[barbender]

 I can definitely see where there is a lot of work in making real videos, and ones that people would actually want to watch. I tried making videos with a Gopro in the forwarder and processor, but pretty quickly realized that the amount of editing it would take to turn them into something interesting was more than I was willing to do. 

 I found it too much trouble just transferring videos from my Gopro to my phone. I just want to take  ideas on my phone and press send😁

[OlJarhead]

I often use 4 gopros, a cell phone and a Canon digital slr 😉 and edit on my PC.  

[Crossroads]

Yeah, I felt like Bon Jovi with all the cameras around me Friday. That was some cool looking wood though. 

[OlJarhead]

Yes that wood was awesome!

[Broncman]

This thread has made me laugh a few times! Yep there are channels I watch for simple entertainment and some for learning.  I am sure we have all saw the youtube title clip of the spandex queen holding the overly large stihl like she was actually going to saw with it...

There is also several "2 girls and a sawmill" teams out there on YT.

I don't mind watching channels for entertainment as long as they are actually doing real work such as the young red head. They are spending a lot of time building their channel.  As long as they keep some decently interesting sawing videos, I will occasionally watch them. The others have done gone too far.

When they get to click baity with the titles or the still pics used in the video titles...
Then I skip over that. We call them Attention w......s around here. 


Coming from the offroad race scene and being involved in chasing sponsors, internet content,  you tube videos and ratings and exposure,  the older I get, the more I just want to be left alone with my dog, my equipment and my mountain land!

[4x4American]

So you're saying that if I start sawing in spandex, video myself doing it, and uploading it to YT, I can make millions!?  8)

Where in H have you been?

You know exactly where I've been lol- at the sawmill!!

The very mention of Spandex and 4X4 Doug came sniffing his way back home.  :D

hahaha well ya know, what can I say 

It's good to have 4 x 4 back, even if it is about spandex.
 I wonder if he had a "hurdle" to get over, in order to make it back to the forum? 😉

haha thank ya and yep, definitely been jumping hurdles over here!

4x4 "D-U-G"! Welcome home!

 Most of the "spandex sawyers" know exactly what they are up to dressing as they do. However, I don't think those poor girls that did the 2x4 video probably understand why they get so many views.

Thank ya thank ya!  

Sorry fellas it only took me about a year to respond.  I've been wrapped up in my sawmill creation over here and I got burnt out with it so just hadn't been too jazzed up to talk about it after living it all day long.  Just also super busy don't take a lot of time to get on the computer box.  Hope alls well, I'll be back next year around this time 

[YellowHammer]

Good to hear from you.

The easiest way to tell if a YouTuber should be considered an expert is to see if they have an actual business pretense, actively selling what they are filming.  If they do not have a legitimate business webpage, they are (probably) not a legitimate trade expert.  If a YouTuber says they are an expert in concrete then you should able to look them up, go to their business website and it should look like a legitimate concrete business looking for jobs, with projects of jobs they have done in the past, pricing information, contacts and scheduling information, in other words, it should look like a real business webpage looking to feed their employees and keep the business growing.  If not, well, guess what, they are not a real trade business, they are just "show business."

You might also be interested to know that due to the high rates of heavy industry insurance, some YouTubers don't even have trade insurance, because it can be very high, like we all know, and that's another reason they would not have a storefront.  So no insurance in their trade, so no real business.  They are actors, not experts.     

[OlJarhead]

I'll play devils advocate:  When you retire YH does that mean you can no longer be an expert.

Of course someone without a business CAN be an expert.  In fact, there is nothing further from the truth (that one must have one to be so).

Anyone can be an expert at something if given enough training, experience etc to get there but a real expert would also realize no one knows everything.

Youtubers may or may not be (buyer beware). 

[Rhodemont]

Guess I am an old bored guy.  Go Spandex!

[YellowHammer]

In most cases, recognized Experts in a professional field reach that level in some way by being, or have been, in that field or business by professional capacity of some kind, either apprentice, employee, owner, manager, whatever.   You say with "enough training and experience" a person becomes an expert.  Of course, so who undergoes training, and gets enough experience unless they somehow were or are "in the business?" Training and experience takes money, time, and effort.  Most experts I have known, from beekeepers, farmers, mechanics, lawyers, accountants, fishermen, race car drivers, furniture makers, carpenters, house builders, brick masons, blacksmiths, concrete, roofers, knife makers, shooters, riflemen, chefs, have all gotten that way by being "in the business" trade in some way.  For example, you are in the "business" of sawmilling and sell your product, mobile sawmilling.  You put in your dues, and reap the rewards.  You film it, sure, but have a real sawmill business, with real customers, real rates, and real jobs.  You have a business presence and so when you make a video, there is credibility.  You are making my point. 

In contrast, I'm sure you know that many YouTubers who never sell their products they make at all, and is some cases, do so on purpose because if they actually sold it, and if people found out it was junk, then they would get bad product reviews and lose their "expert" status.  These people intentionally do not sell their end product for realistic fears of being found out to be hacks. 

Do you have suitable business insurance for your sawmilling business?  Of course you do.  I'm also sure you know that there are YouTube's who do not have related business insurance although they are literally filming themselves "running a (fill in the blank) business" on YouTube.  How can that be?  They are actors and experts in the business of YouTube, but not "experts in the business." 
 
To your other question, yes, in many ways, "status" is very much a perishable item, because in any professional business, whether it be engineering, dentistry, race car driving and as Mike Tyson just found out, boxing, once a person leaves a professional field, unless they maintain a way to stay current, they very well could lose "expert" status.  They may be masters of old techniques, but if those techniques go stale, so do they.  In many professional fields, like engineering, the day I retired, and stopped taking continuing education training, and stopped working in the environment of explosives and engineering, my certifications were lost, and so was my professional and expert status. 

In some situations, when you see and hear a Yoda, you know it.  He or she may be old and retired (which means they were in the business) but still talk the talk and walk the walk.  Of course, rarely does Yoda wear spandex and spray themselves with water while dancing up and down in a t shirt. And Yoda did undergo decades of Jedi training, and was certainly in the business of being a Jedi, as even he had his own "Jedi Academy" business.

So I stand by my original statement, the quickest way to see if a YouTube "expert" is an expert, or maybe just worth listening to, is to see if they actually have a business presence, or professional experience, in the field they are filming.

[Peter Drouin]

If you don't keep up your certification in some trades, you will lose it. This is only because of the new materials and, in some cases, new machines being developed to do the job.

I have been to some sawmills in the business. They are far from professional-looking but, sell lumber.

Cutting nice lumber has some degree of skill. But in the end, it's a log. Not brain surgery.
And if one doesn't want to cut logs. Just buy lumber from someone else
market it up and resell.

[YellowHammer]

Once again, that's my point.  Yep, those old guys, even if not professional looking, are in the business.  They have been sawing and selling lumber maybe their whole life.  They have paid their dues, if they make a mistake, it hurts them in their wallet, they can't just laugh about it and make a "Best Fails" YouTube video.   I wish they would make videos, they would be great to learn from.

Some may be interested to know that I heard one of the YouTube Sawmillers is potentially canceling his channel, as nobody watches his videos now that his wife is pregnant.  Or maybe his priorities have changed.  Gonna have to find a new spandex channel.   

Sawmilling, like any trade, is a continuing education, and, in many ways, it is more fun than rocket science and I don't agree with you about the difficulty of sawmilling in today's competitive business environment.  Although it is not brain surgery, it is something that requires an eye for excellence if someone wants to try to get to the top of their business, or grow their business.  It can be very competitive and challenging trying to get the most money, yield, of the highest grade boards, as efficiently as possible, from a log, especially a log that has been paid for with hard earned money.  I don't know of any pro, in any business, who isn't always trying to improve their skill or product, sawmilling included.

YouTube is show business and big money.  Many of the people are actors, just like on TV.  I hope people don't learn how to sail a boat from watching Gilligan's Island, or how to survive in the widlerness by watching Bear Grylls, or think that Mountain Men is actually real, when Eustice Conway drives a new pickup truck to "work" then gets on his costume, harnesses up his old mule, and then gets to filming.