Cold cranking

[barbender]

 I've made engines make bad sounds with ether a couple of times. They actually hydro-locked, which is probably a good thing considering that they might have thrown a rod if they had fired. In every situation it was from a can of cold, -10° ether. I've never had that issue with a warm can.

[mike_belben]

In the Ford Louisville, 290 Cummins I have a barb fitting in the intake manifold with small hose to dash [in cab] with a petcock/ prime cup on this end. You squirt just a little either in and leave the cock open, hit the starter, she starts and close the cock.  So there Mike Belben .

Doug ive been a little nervous about finding the right time to talk to you about this.. but your shiny 290 and i have been texting back and forth late at night and then kinda started seein each other and now she says she thinks she wants to move down here with me where the ether bunny isnt such a threat.. see if any sparks fly.  Im really sorry doug, i didnt mean for this to happen man i swear.

[Big_eddy]

Never had a problem starting saws down to -40.
My log splitter doesn't like starting in the cold. (-10c and below) Oil is too stiff for the starter to spin the engine over fast enough to catch. Need to start by pulling the cord. :(. That's the only way to spin it fast enough.  I usually boost it off the truck and run the starter a few times  until I hear it trying to catch, then give it a pull on the cord.

Once the oil has warmed up, it'll restart fine.

[mike_belben]

If i really have to start the forktruck (353/3speed powershift) during an extended below freezing period i put a modified propane turkey fryer under then engine oil pan and then under the trans sump for a while.  Its just a 3 legged fryer base with the safety temp switch jumped out so itll run without a pot ontop.  The trans oil really makes a big difference as was said.  In winter i leave some moving blankets just drapped over the engine box all the time so that later on itll restart easier too.

[doc henderson]

My splitter battery is linked to the conveyor battery.  I finally got a 110 plug in proximity and put a little Schumacher battery maintainer on it.  pull choke and it hits in a few rotations.  electric start.

My physics instructor used to take college students on ski trips to Colorado.  they took school vans.  not great in the snow ice and cold.  they would buy charcoal and foil pans.  after the coals were going, they would slide the pans under the engine.  Hope for not too big of an oil or fuel leak.  got them going in the am.

[Magicman]

The only starter on my splitter is an old 1943 hit-and-miss rope puller and at the moment I is missing.   

[doc henderson]

lol.  I hear they are on the green hit list as they make a lot of CO2, and methane, depending on what is in their diet.!!!

[Gary Davis]

I put a block heater on my garrett 15

[Plankton]

Ive been parking the skidder so I can pull my truck up put jumpers on the batterys and a dryer vent hose on the exhaust pointed at the oil pan. Let it sit while I sharpen and gas up saws drink coffee etc. Crank it for a few with a map gas torch blowing across the intake and full throttle to open the rack wait for a minute or 2 then a Little wiff of warm ether while cranking  and the 353 usually fires right off.

[treemuncher]

The diesel fired preheaters are the best thing for cold weather starting IMHO unless you have access to electricity where you park a machine.

7 years ago I purchased a machine with a Webasto/Eberspacher type diesel fired hot water heater with programable controller. THAT is the best thing ever for cold weather in my opinion. It preheats the block as well as the hydraulic tank oil. Even if I don't have it warmed before I get on site, it speeds up getting to warmed up temps by at least 3x on a mid 20's day. I will never be without one on my main machine again. Start the heater and let it run while I deliver the machine to a job site - machine is ready to go when I get there!

Since starting out with that one, I've been using the Chinese diesel air heaters for the past 3 years. After 3 seasons of day heating my mother's 40' RV, I finally had to clean out the burner and give it some attention. Not bad for $120 investment at the time. I run it off of a 55 gal drum so I don't have to fill it but about 2x during the heating season.

I just assembled my newest air heater this AM. It should have been in mid week when I really needed it but this part of the South shuts everything down due to snow, including deliveries by UPS & FedUp. Under $90 on Ebay for a complete self contained suitcase unit that runs on 12v-24v DC that I can use most anywhere for a machine that is cold or froze up. My Yanmar controls were completely frozen this week and did not want to start. It is preheating as I write this. The unit is small enough to toss into the service truck if I even think a machine will be hard starting or I need heat for anything else (like working on repairs in the freezing cold). Of course I can always take the burner out of the box and permanently install it somewhere else if needed.

The water units are running a bit under $300 and take more time to install. I may still install one of these on the F550 and wrap a coil of coolant line around the grease keg and the pressure washer pump in the back of the service bed.

Hmmm, gallery is out and I can't post photos?

[Firewoodjoe]

The ones on my machines are 800-1200 or so. They are brand name.  Where are the $300 water units for sale? I'd like to swap a cheap one on and see if I can get these others rebuilt or if the cheap one is good just keep those.

[barbender]

 I've seen those cheap water heaters too. $300, if I run the Pettibone cable skidder more it will be getting one.

Ponsse machines have Webasto preheaters, they are absolutely essential to winter operation. Set it for the morning, the machine is warm when you get there. Even if I have to start a cold machine, I fire the heater and it is warm in 5-10 minutes instead of 1/2 hour.

Even if  I have to jump out for an hour on a really cold day, throw the heater on and it keeps the machine warm.

[mike_belben]

Southern illinois logger has gotten me curious about those vevor webasto clones and i guess this thread seals the deal on needing to get a few.

[mudfarmer]

Bruno is running something like that in his saw shed, pics in a thread in sawmill section.

Skidder had a circulation heater on it, didn't work. Put on an $80 Kat's this morning, fired up at 5F like it was summertime after about 20min of me doing other stuff. Run off a suitcase generator I keep in the truck.

[Mountain_d]

I just looked at a low cost coolant heater online and they wanted $320 US plus $50 shipping. I wonder if those units have rebuild kits available like Webasto does? Question for those using Webasto style coolant heaters, do you remove them for the summer? Would removing them for the summer give a longer time between rebuild is required?

[barbender]

 We never remove ours on the Ponsses, they are a permanent fixture on the machine. More bad would come to them taking them in and out, IMO.

They get cleaned every fall before they are needed. Regular maintenance items are the hot surface ignitor and flame sensor, just like on a torpedo heater- which they basically are. I've seen a few need burners replaced too.

[treemuncher]

The ones on my machines are 800-1200 or so. They are brand name.  Where are the $300 water units for sale? I'd like to swap a cheap one on and see if I can get these others rebuilt or if the cheap one is good just keep those.

Ebay is where I purchased my extra water heater unit. It came with the circulation pump and everything needed to plumb it in. It's a back up in case mine goes down on the Lamtrac or if I get a long term job in cold weather with one of the other machines and need to add it into a system. It's cheaper for me to have the extra on the shelf than need it and not have it.

Rebuilding the basic Chinese diesel air heater runs under $20 (yes, on Ebay) and includes gaskets, igniter plug, screen and tools. I doubt that the water unit is any different except for the jacketed heat exchanger. As cheap as these new air units are, they are almost disposable as a rebuild kit is nearly 25% the cost of a new one. Just depends on what your labor is worth.

[chep]

We were told to cycle preheaters 1x a month outside of winter. Keep them ticking.
Out preheater our rottne is from Sweden. And is very hard to figure out. I was wondering if we could pull it's brain and put a webasto brain in?

[Firewoodjoe]

Wow I just looked at the eBay ones. $319 free shipping and they are very similar to to ones I have. I may have to try one.

[Joe Hillmann]

I found a way NOT to preheat a machine yesterday.

I needed a tractor I haven't used since summer.  It fired right up but the hydraulics had ice in them and didn't work.  So I covered the entire thing in a tarp(muffler went through a hole in the tarp) so hot air from the radiator and sides of the engine would be blown back under the fuel tank,hydraulic tank, hoses and spool valves.

Then I sat in the truck and waited for it to thaw.   It partially thawed than blew a hydraulic hose and dumped all the fluid on the ground.  The heat also thawed the ice I didn't know was in the fuel tank and I spent the rest of the day fixing the hydraulics and trying to get the water out of the fuel.

[mike_belben]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[30dodgeboy]

We were told to cycle preheaters 1x a month outside of winter. Keep them ticking.
Out preheater our rottne is from Sweden. And is very hard to figure out. I was wondering if we could pull it's brain and put a webasto brain in?

the heater manufacturers (webasto, espar, pro heat) are worried about the fuel in them getting stale and algae over summer, so their instructions say to run for like 10-15 min every month

[Firewoodjoe]

I'm now using the heater on my harvester. Been 2 1/2 years and it fired right off and works fine. It's great for the engine. Starts right up. Coolant 160-180 after the 2 hour run time. I do like it and will be fixing the forwarder when I can. But hydraulics will still beep at me until I warm it up. So it only saves me about 15 minutes in the morning. Yes it has a hydraulic coolant heater also. Nice but sure not a must. In years past at -20 or less we'd leave them run all night. Otherwise start them everyday with no preheaters. 4-5 machine conventional tree length crew. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Espar heater 

[Maine logger88]

Good batteries cables and starters go a long way. If the engine can turn over well it solves most cold start issues. My 648 will start well below zero with no preheat or ether my crane with the same 6068 engine as the skidder requires a little sniff of ether once it gets real cold. My buncher has a pro heat and the chipper has a 3406 cat engine so it fires right up anyway. I've never had or seen any problems with using ether and I've used my fair share over the years just have to use common sense and it won't hurt a thing