Log lot management problems

Brucer · January 12, 2011, 10:52:39 PM

Quote from: Magicman on January 12, 2011, 01:55:35 PM
I know nothing about sawing frozen logs, but I now know that frozen sawdust is some bad stuff.

Fiber-reinforced-ice. Stronger than FRP (Fiber reinforced plastic).

For those of you WM owners sawing snow-covered logs, if your sawhead starts to shake and vibrate, shut 'er down right away, take off the blade, and pull the B57 belt on the drive side. Then check for lumps of frozen sawdust around the bottom of the groove. It will nearly always build up at the balancing holes.

Clean the holes right out. As soon as the freezing sawdust starts to accumulate, it just attracts more. A shot of WD-40 should keep you going for a few days more.

Bibbyman · January 22, 2011, 05:55:57 PM

The snowfall reports range from 7" to 12". I think we could have got 10". It takes quite a bit of effort and time to clean off the loglot and around the mill. But I think it pays off by making it safer to work and the lot will dry out a lot sooner.

I made a delivery to one place that hadn't cleaned off the snow. They just run over it with a big wheel loader until they had about an acre skating rink.

Dave Shepard · January 22, 2011, 07:44:28 PM

Those little patches of bare earth will soak up some heat from the sun and help melt the rest of the snow off.

SwampDonkey · January 22, 2011, 08:11:44 PM

We had the same 10", and I cleaned the driveway down to the tar. It isn't melting the rest. :D What am I doing wrong? ;) Of course it's only about 4 F right now. ;D

Bibbyman · January 22, 2011, 09:15:31 PM

This is the third snow we've had this winter so far. 10" is quite a bit for us in one snow. Some winters we only get a few dustings and it's gone in a few days. One winter (83 I think) we had about 20" on the ground from several snowstorms in a row and it drifted quite a bit. Our electricity was out for about 2 weeks.

Ron Wenrich · January 23, 2011, 06:46:23 AM

We have an old log that is about 14' long that has metal in it. So, we put holes in there for the loader forks to fit through. Then they use it to push snow, mud, or anything else in the yard. It levels things out pretty well, and its pretty quick. Might work on the Terex and save you some time.

Bibbyman · January 23, 2011, 09:49:27 AM

I'm not in too bad a shape as far as snow removal equipment. We have a 7' wide bucket that will work on either Terex (one having headed cab - the other MORE POWER). Also and AGCO FWA tractor with bucket and 8' blade.

If the ground if fozen or on packed gravel, I can take the bucket on the Terex and push up until it starts to spill over the sides. It then works like a snowplow. It'll clean a swath. It'll remove a lot of snow pretty quick. And when I get the bucket to the pile, I can pile it up or dump it over top the pile.

It takes me a good part of the day because I have about a half mile of drive plus my folk's drive and our parking spot. I also clean out the neighbor's short drive since I'm right there.

I don't know about cubic yards but one scoop of sawdust will about fill a standard PU. Two will mound it up and spill over.

AvT · January 23, 2011, 10:11:21 AM

I got a couple of feet of snow last week. I have a 7 foot snow blower that makes short work of it till I get near the log yard. It doesn't take much of a stick to take out the shear pins.

Bibbyman · March 05, 2011, 04:20:33 AM

Our loglot was just drying out from the big and small snows we've had. Then yesterday afternoon we had a strong storm cell move through and drop about an inch of pea-sized hail and rain quite a bit - mostly sideways! Our electrisity was out for 3 hours.

We've not got any new logs in for at least a month because of the ground conditions. But we've been working down our log inventory. We've got a couple of month's worth of logs we can saw. I stored up well over 400 9' logs in case we had to saw rail road ties. But it turns out we have just as good a market locally for 6x8s that are less trouble because we don't have to end trim and the delivery is short. We've worked through some 200 of these 9' logs in the last couple of weeks.

The above picture was taken after the storm and before a night of rain and showers. But on Wednesday I was able to get to the back lot and fill the deck from a stack in back (center of picture) and move some logs up to the front where I can get to them in any weather. We can saw between rain showers as there are more predicted next week.

The only shortage we have at this time is in 12' logs. We've bid two jobs requiring a substantial number of 12' lumber. One is for 2x8s and most of our 12' logs on hand are not big enough to be productive at making 2x8s. But both are just bids at this point and for delivery in May if they become orders.

My strategy for accumulating 9' logs as insurance has cost us some as about 50 logs were cut last spring and summer and had the sap was stained. Sawing was made more difficult because they were hard and the bark slipping. We had to slab heavier than normal and edge heavier to remove the worst of the stain. I expect our grade to be lower also. But that's the price you pay for taking a gamble. The stain does not hurt the value of the 6x8s and many of the logs were too small to make a good 7x9 tie anyway. These little logs (11-12" dia) would only make a couple of boards.

SwampDonkey · March 05, 2011, 06:18:55 AM

Nice bunch of logs Bib. Rail road ties isn't an option here because they tore up all the local track. So if it's not a sawlog, it's as good or better to send it as pulpwood instead of hauling to far off markets. I don't know if any of the portable guys ever developed a market for ties around here or not. I know we never had anyone looking for tie logs at the concentration yard. I know Maritime Lumber would buy lumber, but the guy told me a lot of the guys didn't understand the grades and there was too much defect and stain (logs laid too long).

ellmoe · March 05, 2011, 07:50:54 AM

Bibby, In Fl. we " only" buy tree length. Is that not an option in Mo.? Years ago I had a logger ask if I'd pay a premium for pre-buck logs, my reply, "I'll cut the price". I explained the problem that you are experiencing, leaving out the fact that most of the loggers don't know where to buck a log. Now, unlike you, we don't have much of a "grade" market for hardwood here, are the loggers removing veneer and pulp and selling you the rest, or?

Thanks,
Mark

Bibbyman · March 05, 2011, 08:45:55 AM

Quote from: ellmoe on March 05, 2011, 07:50:54 AM
Bibby, In Fl. we " only" buy tree length. Is that not an option in Mo.? Years ago I had a logger ask if I'd pay a premium for pre-buck logs, my reply, "I'll cut the price". I explained the problem that you are experiencing, leaving out the fact that most of the loggers don't know where to buck a log. Now, unlike you, we don't have much of a "grade" market for hardwood here, are the loggers removing veneer and pulp and selling you the rest, or?

Thanks,
Mark

Not an option here in the land of oak and no pine.

The loggers here cut the premium butt cut logs for veneer and stave market. The best second cuts go for grade logs and the rest goes for sawlogs. No loggers in my area are equipped to load and haul tree length logs. Besides, "tree length" oak is on average not that long.

White oak stave logs bring $1300/mbf. I can't make money sawing logs like that up into cants, beams and flooring lumber. I don't know what veneer white oak and red oak go for but it's too high to buy for sawlogs.

My logger markets some "grade" red oak to another mill rather than bring it to us. I don't know if we could pay his price (he says he gets) or that he's got a long-time commitment to the mill to deliver grade red oak logs. Occasionally he puts some grade red oak logs into loads to us. The explanation is that he only had a few.

One time in a conversation with him he slipped up and told he was comparing a check from us for sawlogs to a check he got from his grade customer and wasn't happy. And that he had a conversation with the other mill about the prices. When we get good grade logs, Mary pays more. But the overall total for the load does not show much difference. The logger only looks at what he gets for the load.

Besides, our beam and cant market does not grade by faces. As long as it's solid, straight, and contain the heart, it passes if it has 4 clear faces or a hundred knots, bug holes, etc. Our best beams come from burr and post oak butt cut logs we sometimes get.

ellmoe · March 05, 2011, 04:11:35 PM

Thanks!

paul case · March 05, 2011, 08:21:33 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on March 05, 2011, 08:45:55 AM

Besides, our beam and cant market does not grade by faces. As long as it's solid, straight, and contain the heart, it passes if it has 4 clear faces or a hundred knots, bug holes, etc. Our best beams come from burr and post oak butt cut logs we sometimes get.

are those 6x8's just for blocking? knots i understand but if someone wanted a beam to use under or in a house or barn i expect bug holes wouldnt be very attractive. our tie buyer dont like too many bug holes either. i can just imagine the black stuff running out of them after treatment. i get a lot of ant damage red and black oak logs and it can scrap a lot of the log and not look that bad on the ends or outside. them durn bugs. pc

Bibbyman · March 05, 2011, 09:54:43 PM

Quote from: paul case on March 05, 2011, 08:21:33 PM
Quote from: Bibbyman on March 05, 2011, 08:45:55 AM

Besides, our beam and cant market does not grade by faces. As long as it's solid, straight, and contain the heart, it passes if it has 4 clear faces or a hundred knots, bug holes, etc. Our best beams come from burr and post oak butt cut logs we sometimes get.

are those 6x8's just for blocking? knots i understand but if someone wanted a beam to use under or in a house or barn i expect bug holes wouldnt be very attractive. our tie buyer dont like too many bug holes either. i can just imagine the black stuff running out of them after treatment. i get a lot of ant damage red and black oak logs and it can scrap a lot of the log and not look that bad on the ends or outside. them durn bugs. pc

Log home logs, beams, posts, etc. are milled from them. I think they expect them to be a bit "rustic". Bad defects are cut out in the process as they can use some logs as short as 3'.

SwampDonkey · March 06, 2011, 06:32:54 AM

They don't buy less than perfect logs for log homes around here and they pay more for them than any softwood mill because they are large diameter to. I've seen spruce logs $250 each. You wouldn't get $75 at a mill.

Bibbyman · March 06, 2011, 08:09:15 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 06, 2011, 06:32:54 AM
They don't buy less than perfect logs for log homes around here and they pay more for them than any softwood mill because they are large diameter to. I've seen spruce logs $250 each. You wouldn't get $75 at a mill.

These they mill into a uniform "D" shape or sometimes and "O" shape (depending on if the customer wants round on inside or flat) with grooves on top and bottom. They are stacked up and screwed down like Lincoln logs in uniform layers. Some major defects that can be placed on the top and bottom are overlooked. Beams tend to need to be better but still knots, worm holes are normally not a problem.

Are the ones you see sold up there pealed and used as is in a more traditional log house construction?

SwampDonkey · March 06, 2011, 08:48:35 AM

They buy bark on. The log home builders do all the peeling and shaping. But the outside and inside are natural round face. One of the neighbor's kids actually liked the job of peeling. He was paid by the log and made good pay. :D

Not many people buy log homes around here. We have cousins out by Paul_H and their log home burnt. The insurance would not allow them to rebuild a log home. They had gone to a hockey game one winter evening and returned to a house on fire and pickup truck burnt to. They cost a lot more than a square lumber frame.

Bibbyman · March 06, 2011, 08:53:12 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 06, 2011, 08:48:35 AM
They buy bark on. The log home builders do all the peeling and shaping. But the outside and inside are natural round face. One of the neighbor's kids actually liked the job of peeling. He was paid by the log and made good pay. :D

As he should. It's likely pretty hard work you can't get a lot of people to do and maybe dangerous if you're not practiced at it. People who pay for these kinds of homes have the money to spend.

We once supplied beams for a timber framer that framed an addition onto a doctor's home. The addition had a stain glass window in the end that was custom made and imported from Germany at a cost of over $500,000.00.

SwampDonkey · March 06, 2011, 09:12:41 AM

It's mostly doctors and dentists building the larger ones here to. I've seen about 4, 1 bedroom log homes around local.

I knew of a fellow doing that in BC, or new from the ground up, no addition. Some were $800,000 and up and I think he said the biggest one he worked on was over $2M.

Sure is crazy money to house a bed. :D

ellmoe · March 06, 2011, 09:13:22 AM

Quote from: Bibbyman on March 06, 2011, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 06, 2011, 08:48:35 AM

We once supplied beams for a timber framer that framed an addition onto a doctor's home. The addition had a stain glass window in the end that was custom made and imported from Germany at a cost of over $500,000.00.

One kid with a BB gun

SwampDonkey · March 06, 2011, 09:20:01 AM

I think he meant the whole addition. Stained glass isn't that expensive. Stained glass is in a lot of churches around here and they never paid those dollars.

Bibbyman · March 06, 2011, 01:36:17 PM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 06, 2011, 09:20:01 AM
I think he meant the whole addition. Stained glass isn't that expensive. Stained glass is in a lot of churches around here and they never paid those dollars.

I feel real sure he ment the whole window.