My New lt50 things not looking good

widetrackman · May 26, 2024, 11:53:02 PM

As you guys know my Mill was delivered to Ms.asc and incomplete. The Mill was delivered a couple weeks ago with about 12 hrs. Ran ok by Tech that delivered it. I have not time to run since delivery but have been looking over the mill to see if every thing looks right after the feasico with WM. I was checking out the installion of the debarker when I noticed the wires connecting to the debarker did not have rubber boots on the terminals and then noticed the red and black wires were opposite what the sticker indicated as to +/-. The debarker blade does rotate correctly (trowing the chips away from operator) However I DO NOT LIKE THIS. The Ms. tech had trouble installing the debarker and had it running backwards, trowing circuit breakers that he said did not control the debarker. After I left and later he ordered wiring, solenoid, etc, and delivered a week later. Bottom line I am not sure about the debarker. To make things worst I threw a 7 foot level (yea yea overkill) on the bunks, they are not level, some high some low (front to rear of mill). Should I have to do a total alignment to validate it's aligned to spec's on a mill I have never run, really. If WM will not send someone to straighten out this mill (other than Ms.) I am considering having them pick the Mill and get me another one properly configured and next off the assembly or refund my $60,000. I will call WM Tue and see what they have to say.

MattM · May 27, 2024, 05:48:27 AM

Don't just go by the level, you need to move the head over each bunk and measure the height from the blade to the bunk. Measure on the left and right side in roughly the same place on each bunk.

They probably are off, my first lt35 had 1/2inch difference between some bunks and they all had to be adjusted. On my second it was much better, I only had to adjust 2 or three of them.

I love my WM but there sure are a ton of issues with these new ones, thank god they have the best customer service and get warranty parts out quickly (at least where I live)

widetrackman · May 27, 2024, 06:34:37 AM

Quote from: MattM on May 27, 2024, 05:48:27 AMDon't just go by the level, you need to move the head over each bunk and measure the height from the blade to the bunk. Measure on the left and right side in roughly the same place on each bunk.

They probably are off, my first lt35 had 1/2inch difference between some bunks and they all had to be adjusted. On my second it was much better, I only had to adjust 2 or three of them.

I love my WM but there sure are a ton of issues with these new ones, thank god they have the best customer service and get warranty parts out quickly (at least where I live)

Yes I understand how the adjustment should be made . I only used the level to get a quick idea if there would need to be adjustments as there seem things are not right. In my option if you start tinkering with blade heights you screw up the acc 2 calibration So dose WM expect me to realign a Mill that should have been in alignment before shipping, that I have not run since delivered with 13 hours after I paid them $60,000. They need to send someone to get this Mill right.

Old Greenhorn · May 27, 2024, 08:58:22 AM

Well, the bed alignment is somewhat subject to how and where the mill is set up. I realize you 'know the gig' from your prior experience, but you need to make sure it's not just the FAO's, ground settling and such like that. Things also move in transit. Think of the hit the machine takes when it goes over a pothole at 70mph. Adjusting the bunks, is different from the head. It pays to put a little time in and set your mill the way you want/need it to be. You don't say how much the bunks are out when checked with the level, and that might make a difference.
As fare as you swapped leads on the debarker motor. This relates to all the revs I mentioned in prior posts. The swing arm lengths were one of the things messed with in those revs and MANY folks had that problem with the breaker trips happening constantly. I spent a lot of time figuring our ours and the WM tech that I got threw his hands up. So I finally asked if reversing the motor direction might work because it seemed to me the blade was pulling itself into the log rather than riding along it. The tech had no idea and suggested I give it a try, so I did and our problems went away. Now I trip a breaker once a month or so from normal issues. This is why, when you wrote about that problem, I told you I had a solution for you/them. Apparently this change has still not been documented fully at WM, but seems like some mils are delivering with the change, Like Ted's. Having the wires swapped is not big deal, it's a DC motor, but yeah, there should at least be a boot on that positive wire. Make a new label(s) for the terminals or peel the existing one off and turn it upside down and tape it back on.
I am neither blaming nor defending WM here, I am saying it's now your machine to learn and get the way you want/need it.
It might just be me, but I have always wanted to know everything I can about the equipment I own or operate so that repairs and preventions become easier and faster. So I take the time to go through that adjustment process myself, always believing that because it's 'mine' I will take the time needed to do a better job than anyone else could. Along the way, I will see and learn 'the weak spots' where I should look first when problems pop up later. Becoming 'one with the machine' sounds silly, but it has long been my philosophy and allows me to narrow down problems very fast in a lot of cases.
Probably this post is not want you want to hear, but it is another way to look at it. If I didn't take ownership of several of the problems on our machine and figure it out for myself to set it right, we would still be limping along.

Southside · May 27, 2024, 09:17:43 AM

There is a slight crown to the frame of the mill when it does not have a log on it, she settles in with the log and the outriggers to flat is the design assuming the mill is on flat ground and the middle outriggers are set right. That's why you measure from the band down to the bunks to get the proper height of each.

SawyerTed · May 27, 2024, 10:20:35 AM

Set it up, run it an hour or two with good logs and evaluate it! Any adjustments shouldn't be done until you know the machine better.

Otherwise you're borrowing trouble.

It took several hours to get my LT50 dialed in like I wanted. It was fine tuning mostly on the guide arm and guides.

I usually setup on my concrete driveway for any alignment my mill needs. Make sure the middle FAOs are firmly and evenly set and not carrying too much weight when you set it up.

widetrackman · May 27, 2024, 02:18:30 PM

Quote from: Southside on May 27, 2024, 09:17:43 AMThere is a slight crown to the frame of the mill when it does not have a log on it, she settles in with the log and the outriggers to flat is the design assuming the mill is on flat ground and the middle outriggers are set right. That's why you measure from the band down to the bunks to get the proper height of each.

No problem with mill being level, got it level with the overkill 7' level. Then put a 3000 lb log on then took it off, still level. So no problems.

widetrackman · May 27, 2024, 02:30:09 PM

If I start adjusting the head to bunks do I screw up the accuset 2 calibration. I would not wish to do calibration as I might make things worst even though there are instructions.

widetrackman · May 27, 2024, 02:53:27 PM

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on May 27, 2024, 08:58:22 AMWell, the bed alignment is somewhat subject to how and where the mill is set up. I realize you 'know the gig' from your prior experience, but you need to make sure it's not just the FAO's, ground settling and such like that. Things also move in transit. Think of the hit the machine takes when it goes over a pothole at 70mph. Adjusting the bunks, is different from the head. It pays to put a little time in and set your mill the way you want/need it to be. You don't say how much the bunks are out when checked with the level, and that might make a difference.
As fare as you swapped leads on the debarker motor. This relates to all the revs I mentioned in prior posts. The swing arm lengths were one of the things messed with in those revs and MANY folks had that problem with the breaker trips happening constantly. I spent a lot of time figuring our ours and the WM tech that I got threw his hands up. So I finally asked if reversing the motor direction might work because it seemed to me the blade was pulling itself into the log rather than riding along it. The tech had no idea and suggested I give it a try, so I did and our problems went away. Now I trip a breaker once a month or so from normal issues. This is why, when you wrote about that problem, I told you I had a solution for you/them. Apparently this change has still not been documented fully at WM, but seems like some mils are delivering with the change, Like Ted's. Having the wires swapped is not big deal, it's a DC motor, but yeah, there should at least be a boot on that positive wire. Make a new label(s) for the terminals or peel the existing one off and turn it upside down and tape it back on.
I am neither blaming nor defending WM here, I am saying it's now your machine to learn and get the way you want/need it.
It might just be me, but I have always wanted to know everything I can about the equipment I own or operate so that repairs and preventions become easier and faster. So I take the time to go through that adjustment process myself, always believing that because it's 'mine' I will take the time needed to do a better job than anyone else could. Along the way, I will see and learn 'the weak spots' where I should look first when problems pop up later. Becoming 'one with the machine' sounds silly, but it has long been my philosophy and allows me to narrow down problems very fast in a lot of cases.
Probably this post is not want you want to hear, but it is another way to look at it. If I didn't take ownership of several of the problems on our machine and figure it out for myself to set it right, we would still be limping along.

I assume the Tech when installing the debarker had the wiring wrong as it was running wrong direction. He changed the wiring and the rotation was correct but debarker would trip the wrong circuit breaker every time it entered the log. After ordering and installing parts they delivered the Mill and debarker ran ok at delivery. However the sticker is pointing opposite what is for correct rotation wired.I would think Lesson would not make this mistake, but? This whole thing seems crazy.

SawyerTed · May 27, 2024, 03:28:52 PM

There is a relatively easy and short procedure for calibrating the Accuset 2 to the correct height

It involves setting the blade 12" above a bunk as measured with a rule or tape. Then there's a few steps in telling the head it's 12" above the bunk.

It's described in detail in the Accuset 2 manual.

Magicman · May 27, 2024, 04:13:41 PM

Quote from: widetrackman on May 27, 2024, 02:30:09 PMIf I start adjusting the head to bunks

This subject has been discussed many times in the past here on the FF. My recommendation and also from the other replies, is to NOT make any bed adjustments, and even then, ONLY until you have talked with your selling dealer, Tim.

Dave Shepard · May 27, 2024, 05:02:44 PM

If WM is scrambling to get parts that debarker motor may have come from a standard head debarker. Same motor, different sticker.

Old Greenhorn · May 27, 2024, 07:08:13 PM

Well, the first thing I would like to know is what you mean by "it was tripping the wrong breaker"? That is a curious statement and if accurate implies a very different issue. But the devil is in the details and one must be very specific when discussing these things.
Second, Dave could be spot on correct. It's just a labels/sticker.
Your assumption I would respectfully say, may not be correct, but we will never know without all those details. After suffering through and solving the tripping breaker issue a year ago with the help of folks here, I have some strong suspicions. I cannot prove these one way or the other without comparing an LT50 (standard) and and LT50 Wide side by side. There is a difference in these debarker swing arm lengths to get the blade in the right range to reach the log. Because of that difference, the wide version puts the debarker blade in a different attack angle and the blade must rotate to throw the chips away from the operator, as yours does. In the standard version (I believe but cannot verify) the blade may throw chips toward the operator and work just fine.
So there is a lot going on here. The tech that installed your debarker likely wired it as marked, which might be fine on the standard, but we know does not work on the wide. Not only is there confusion about this among us users, but also within a bit of the WM staff. It's not a clear cut issue and they don't seem to come up against it often enough yet. The WM reps I have talked with this about at shows deny there has ever been any issue with breaker tripping that they have heard of. They also say there are no problems with swing arm failures, which is also a non truth that they have since improved with a design revision on the welded pin. This is not helpful and keeps users in the dark. But I am not blaming them. All design and build companies have these issues and they can take a generation to get settled, especially during periods of maximum emphasis on filling a high rate of orders.
There are a lot of moving parts in getting these machines out and working well. If it were me, and it has been me, I would just put my time, effort, and frustration into tuning up my machine to be perfect for me. But it never hurts to keep your WM rep involved and providing whatever he/she can to help get you into production.

widetrackman · May 27, 2024, 10:39:07 PM

Well checked the bunks per manual 15" blade to bunk and only the 3rd bunk was high. Now for a new serious problem. While checking the bunks with motor idling a low squeal like a belt, but nothing discerning as I moved down checking bunks. When checking the last bunk and all of a sudden the small squeal was screaming. By the time I could get the key off there was a large cloud of black smoke smelling like burnt rubber, well I know what this means; a smoked drive belt caused by what, who knows. Keep in mind that this idling for the bunks is the only time the mill has been run since delivered about 2 weeks ago with 13 hr's. This just SUCKS

Nealm66 · May 27, 2024, 11:35:03 PM

Good grief

Nealm66 · May 27, 2024, 11:37:30 PM

I've got an lt50 supposed to be done in October and this whole shabang isn't making me feel very very confident

John S · May 28, 2024, 07:07:44 AM

Tow it back to where you bought and have them make it right. Bed rails, debarker, smoked drive belt! Too much, bring it back!

YellowHammer · May 28, 2024, 08:22:25 AM

What kind of engine does it have? Is it a diesel? If it goes into a regen at idle, the idle speed will increase and burn the belt as you describe.

Whatevcer engine you have, when the engine is on, the drive pulley is always spinning, and since the main drive belt is loose but always on the rotating pulley at idle, there is always friction of some level unless the blade is engaged. So extended idling is not a good thing for the drive belt.

I'm not sure on an LT50, but there are a couple studs or a flange or something that stands out from the drive pulley assembly, and their job is to bend the bend the belt around the drive pulley so that the belt will slowly be gripped by the drive pulley and cause it to very slowly rotate or tick over and keep from flat spotting or burning the belt at idle.

Take the main drive cover off, and look to see that the belt is slowly, barely ticking over, rotating even at idle. If it is not, make the adjustment so that it is. Otherwise, the belt will smoke from the friction on the non moving drive belt and continuously rotating main pulley.

MartyParsons · May 28, 2024, 11:15:14 AM

Hello.
The motor from Lesson has the tags WM does not install these.
There should be rubber boots on the wires.

The bed rails are set from blade to bed rail. Putting a level on bed will not ever be flat. Always set up bed with pressure on front and rear leg. Measure from tight blade to each bed document on bed rail with marker. ( the only bed rails I ever adjust are one that customers adjust before calling WM)

The Mark III debarker takes time to adjust the feel of the in / out , watching the blade spin, when it slows tap the switch out , it will trip breaker until you get accustomed to how it works. WM just started using a new design blade and it works great.

Hope this helps .

Sorry I am away on vacation this week.

Thanks!

Andries · May 28, 2024, 11:40:14 AM

Ownership of a spanking new mill should be a wonderful experience, but we can all feel your disappointment as you get to know your mill.
Venting about a less than perfect new machine is understandable, but I hope that you graduate to the next level where you come to a really good working knowledge of the hardware in front of you.
We on the Forum are your allies and WM has built a stellar reputation on customer support. I've never had a working day when something hasn't gone quirky and needed a problem to be solved. There's not too many weeks when I'm asking myself: "Am I a mechanic or a Sawyer?"
It seems that if I'm working, then something will jam up or break on me.
Loader hydraulics, chainsaws, blowers and planers. There's a million little things that need to be managed.
Folks that are involved in this business or heavy hobby, have moved to the next level . Look at YH, he's jumped in with a very likely answer to what happened to the drive belt. Most of the folks that have operated a mill for a long time would open it up, see what's going on, then call the dealer for confirmation and how to avoid a regen at idle in the future. Also, have they got a drive belt on the shelf that they could offer up at this turn of events?

OGH was making a point of this when he pointed out that true ownership isn't defined by buying, it's about working up the tools, skills and network to operate your equipment with a smile on your face.

You've bought the equivalent of a Steinway piano, one of the best made. Ownership is the first step, being able to tune it as the years go by is the only way to keep on making beautiful music.

Magicman · May 28, 2024, 11:42:40 AM

Thank You Marty for weighing in.

barbender · May 28, 2024, 01:04:58 PM

100%, Andries. I feel the OP's frustration on having issues on a brand new machine, but I also know that sawing is as much about being a "millright" and problem solver, as it is making boards.

Personally, I'd fight through it and keep WM abreast of whatever issues you're having. From my own experience and what I've read from others here, they'll make it right.

I've experienced the smoked drive belt on my mill once. I have the (bad) habit of starting my engine up on cold winter days and letting it warm up while I do other things. I say bad habit because sometimes there is a problem and I'm not right there to shut it off. Well in this case my belt started dragging for some reason and burned up🤷 I installed a new belt, and even though I didn't change anything it hasn't done it again since. I still don't know the cause.

Magicman · May 28, 2024, 03:36:11 PM

I have had a new drive belt to fail to properly "crawl" and smoke. It seems that maybe a new belt is more susceptible because it may not have lost it's oval shape and "rounded" out yet.