Basic how to for different log types?

[Mr. Buck]

Hi all, 

I searched but didn't find what I was looking for.  I was watching a local expert's youtube channel. Said expert mentioned something like "gotta take the sapwood off cherry or it'll warp". 

Is there any kind of basic "how to" guide for sawing different woods?  Not the mill mechanics, but things like:
1.  Cut off the sapwood before making boards
2.  Try to quarter | rift | flat saw this wood for the best looking / stablest boards
3. Etc

If there's a book on the topic, and you can point me towards it, I'd appreciate it.  I'm coming to sawmilling from the perspective of a furniture maker.  I understand boards, but I'm going to have to do better and learn more about maximizing beauty / value from the logs I mill.  Guidance to resources is much appreciated.

Thanks! 

[Mr. Buck]

Update: A very fine gentleman recommended to me the Woodmizer 6 dvd set entitled "The Edge on Sawing" .  For the benefit of others, it is this one. I plan to order it.  After searching on the title, the topic has come up here a few times in the past and this DVD set seems to be frequently recommended.

https://www.woodmizer.com/store/Product/Index?id=18

Additional resources welcome

[Digger Don]

Have you looked up Yellow Hammer on You Tube? I've got a low data limit, so I'm not able to watch many, but I know he's got quite a few. One of them has to answer your question. There are others on here, that also do You Tube. Hang around and I'm sure you will get a better answer than this.

[SawyerTed]

Here's one.  Look for Woods to Workshop by Gene Wengert on the Woodmizer website under Resources, Magazines and Guides.  You may have to request it.  

Dr. Wengert has been a member, resource and supporter here. He has been faculty for various land grant universities, done research and writing for the extension service and USDA/Forestry Service among others.  His name would be good to include in any searches you might do.

USDA and the Forest Service have publications too. A web search will get you to the rabbit hole.  

Norwood Sawmills made a series of videos that used to be on YouTube.  It was helpful to me.  Not sure if it's still there.

YouTube, including Hobby Hardwoods, Out of the Woods and Custom Sawyer (Forumites) has good information.  

Studying the specific characteristics of grades of lumber is also informative.  Things like acceptable defects within a grade will help.   Understanding grades will help target lumber that meets given grade.  

Unfortunately, there's not a one stop resource except the Forestry Forum.  Otherwise, it's useful to have several references.  Each log is unique, sawing techniques can be species dependent and techniques can depend on desired end product.

[YellowHammer]

The two best things to read to learn sawmilling?

1.  This Forum because the information is current and put out by many knowledgable, some professional, and experienced sawyers and give interactive input.

2.  The NHLA grade rules.  These tell you what your target is, for the standpoint of all professionally sold hardwood lumber in the US.  You can't just get in a car and drive,  you need to know the destination. 

Yeah, I have about 130 videos out there, and I do answer question for my point of view as a business, as well as buying logs, what to pay, how saw techniques for several different species, etc.  I don't really put out beginning sawing techniques, because once you learn how to run a mill, there really aren't any beginning techniques, because every time you cut a log, it should be geared toward your end product, and not just "cutting wood".  To me it's like a the difference in a generic "How to catch Fish" book vs a "How to Catch Tournament Winning Bass on Lake Guntersville in the Summer."  Big difference. 

So it is my opinion that one of the most important documents to memorize (I harp on it in my videos) is the NHLA handbook (some of that is covered in the WM video series which is great).  The NHLA handbook covers what matters for all marketable hardwood, many discussed in species specific sections, and is as dry as reading stereo instructions, but the NHLA grading rules are what the hardwood industry goes by and if you know the grading rules based on species, then you know what you should be trying to produce.  I get so tired of people calling me up and trying to sell me "good wood" (I made a video on this too) they have sawn with their sawmill, trying to haggle price, and all I have to do is ask "What grade is it?" and they go speechless.  They have no idea.  That's like a person selling eggs and the customer asking what grade they are and responding "Uh, good."  So how can I set a price if they don't know the fundamentals of what they are producing, much less what that is worth?

So read the NHLA handbook, and if you are sawing red oak, go to that section, and learn what it needs to look like to be worth money, either Number 1 Common, Frame Stock or FAS, and then figure out how to get there with the mill with the help of the people on this Forum. Or watch some of my videos, they are geared toward the end goal of sawing for max grade, and selling wood for max profit, so the NHLA grade rules dictate how I cut it.  I actually have the NHLA grade rules posted in our showroom so myself and the customers can talk the same language.  Then I ask them to point to which grade they buy from other mills and they invariably point to the low grade section and say they were "told it was high grade."  Nope, here it is in black and white.     


 

[Mr. Buck]

Have you looked up Yellow Hammer on You Tube? 

Yes sir, and I've been watching. For the moment, much of his content is more advanced than I'm ready for, but I have learned a lot and I'm sure that I will continue to.  For now I'm looking to figure out the basic approach to my first few logs of each type (probably red/white oak, hard maple, poplar, cherry, and maybe SYP.  Maybe sweetgum, although I'm not sure I have a use for it, but I'll be clearing a few of them)

[Mr. Buck]

Here's one.  Look for Woods to Workshop by Gene Wengert



Norwood Sawmills made a series of videos that used to be on YouTube.  It was helpful to me.  Not sure if it's still there.

YouTube, including Hobby Hardwoods, Out of the Woods and Custom Sawyer (Forumites) has good information. 

Studying the specific characteristics of grades of lumber is also informative.  Things like acceptable defects within a grade will help.  Understanding grades will help target lumber that meets given grade. 

Unfortunately, there's not a one stop resource except the Forestry Forum.  Otherwise, it's useful to have several references.  Each log is unique, sawing techniques can be species dependent and techniques can depend on desired end product.

Thank you, Ted!  I watch those youtube channels, and others. Very helpful.  I was able to find Dr Wengerts book from Woodmizer as a pdf.

I also watched a series of videos by the NHLA training director on the very basics of lumber grades. That was a huge help and very informative. I would love to take a class on grading. 

It looks like there's not too many "rules of thumb" based on species. Seems like it's more "read the log" which I have yet to learn. Thanks for your (and everyone else's) patience. 

[Mr. Buck]

...

So read the NHLA handbook, and if you are sawing red oak, go to that section, and learn what it needs to look like to be worth money...

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  I've watched many of your videos and as you said, most are more advanced than I was looking for although I learn a lot each time I watch.

I appreciate your advice about the NHLA handbook. While my main focus for now is not selling the wood, I am wanting to maximize quality for the furniture I build. Developing good habits and an understanding of what makes quality lumber is a top priority.

The handbook will be my next purchase. Thank you!

[Larry]

The two best things to read to learn sawmilling?

1.  This Forum because the information is current and put out by many knowledgable, some professional, and experienced sawyers and give interactive input.

2.  The NHLA grade rules.  These tell you what your target is, for the standpoint of all professionally sold hardwood lumber in the US.  You can't just get in a car and drive,  you need to know the destination. 

"What grade is it?" and they go speechless.  They have no idea.  That's like a person selling eggs and the customer asking what grade they are and responding "Uh, good."  So how can I set a price if they don't know the fundamentals of what they are producing, much less what that is worth?

What a great post! Read the whole post than read it again.

When I started this journey 30 years ago I needed help so one of the first things I did was to take NHLA Short Grading Course.  That gave me the knowledge to understand and know what a good board looks like. After that I volunteered to work for free at a real commercial walnut mill for a short time. I learned how to grade walnut, and how to improve the grade. At the mill I learned how to put the knots on the corners and how to orientate the heart check to get great lumber out of crappy logs.

After I had the basics, I kept refining by reading the forum and learning from the more experienced folks tricks to improve board quality. I'm still learning......

[Mr. Buck]

Thanks for replying and thanks for the link to the courses! 

I also found that the NHLA rulebook is available as a phone app for free. 

[KenMac]

As a non professional sawyer who has learned quite a few lessons on how to saw good boards here I'll start a list and expect other, more knowledgable, sawyers to add their input:
1. If sawing furniture grade lumber- cherry, walnut, white and red oak, maple , and others- try to keep cathedral grain centered in the boards.
2. On cherry, walnut, and maybe others, the sap wood often is a bad thing generally. It affects the drying of boards in a bad way. On thicker boards or slabs sap wood may be desirable according to the wanted aesthetics. Sapwood can be edged off after sawing on the mill or edger, but is normally removed before drying.
3. On most hardwoods the pith should be avoided in boards. It will about always crack and deform during drying. Pine seems ok with the pith, but for furniture you probably want centered cathedral grain as in #1 above.
4. For furniture boards should be sawn to produce crook if stress in unavoidable. Short pieces can be sawn or jointed to produce usable pieces. Consrtuction lumber prefers bow and not crook.

As I said,this is just a starter list and, hopefully, others will add their input to the list. Even correcting any mistakes I made is a good thing.
Good luck in your endeavours!!

[WV Sawmiller]

  Well the system ate my post again,

    I see you said you are mostly interested in furniture lumber so I think Robert/Yellowhammer suggestion about the grading rules is going to be very appropriate for you. He is sawing to sell so he wants to produce the highest return from the log for the lest cost of sawing and handling.

  Many of us are more laymen sawyers and we are just sawing what we or our customer need from the logs we have available. Often a customer asks me "What would you make out of that log" and my answer is usually "Whatever I needed that it was appropriate for." I'll ask their intended us and advise if I feel the wood/species is poorly suited for that use. I'll warn a customer if he wants to cut pine or tulip poplar for ground contact. I had a customer earlier this year who had me saw white into 1X6 fence boards. I advised that was poorly suited but he said he'd be treating it and he and I both left happy.

  Yes, a customer might be using high grade red oak for barn or shed siding that he could cut as higher grade furniture boards which he could sell and then buy lower grade/cost pine or tulip poplar logs/boards which would work just as well  to use on his barn/shed but he already has the oak and he does not have to time, market or inclination to try to sell them so he uses his oak in an overkill situation.

[SawyerTed]

I forgot to mention the obvious.  Experience takes time and is the best teacher.  The only thing is some lessons take months and up to a year to reveal themselves.  

Most of us have learned from our mistakes, at least I have learned as much from my failures as I have from successes.  

You won't know what you don't know until you try to use some of the lumber you've made.  When you go to pull lumber out of the stack and it looks like a potato chip, a sawyer tends to reassess his steps to getting there.  If you don't, you'll continue to waste logs, fuel and time.  

There's lots of opportunities to make designer firewood between the log being cut in the woods and lumber reaching the furniture making shop.

[beenthere]

Not finding anywhere in the NHLA standard lumber grading rules that sapwood is a defect limiting cuttings, only if specified in the special grades. And if so, needs to be calculated (same if heartwood is limited). 

[ArkansasOaks]

I forgot to mention the obvious.  Experience takes time and is the best teacher.  The only thing is some lessons take months and up to a year to reveal themselves. 

Most of us have learned from our mistakes, at least I have learned as much from my failures as I have from successes. 

You won't know what you don't know until you try to use some of the lumber you've made.  When you go to pull lumber out of the stack and it looks like a potato chip, a sawyer tends to reassess his steps to getting there.  If you don't, you'll continue to waste logs, fuel and time. 

There's lots of opportunities to make designer firewood between the log being cut in the woods and lumber reaching the furniture making shop.

This hits the nail right on the head. I haven't been sawing long but working out of state I have to saw when I can and let things dry.  When I finally get to use the lumber it really shows where improvements can be made.  Every time. 

It's seems like sometimes the best decisions I have made was to not start the saw up but instead mess with what is in the yard already.

[Nebraska]

The one thing I am sure of is, you will make some designer firewood (borp  ) as you saw and learn.  It's ok, you will also saw wood with amazing grain and colors it's all part of the fun. 

[Mr. Buck]

I'll start a list and expect other, more knowledgable, sawyers to add their input:!!

Thank you for the tips! 

[Mr. Buck]

Howard, your post makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the reply!

[Mr. Buck]

I forgot to mention the obvious.  Experience takes time and is the best teacher.  The only thing is some lessons take months and up to a year to reveal themselves. 

Thanks, Ted!  I expect this. I'm hoping to minimize the catastrophic lessons and maybe this thread will be a help to others as well. 

Thank you very much for your responses, very informative! 

[Mr. Buck]

@YellowHammer thanks for the last two videos.  Learning quite a lot today! 

[YellowHammer]

Sure, no problem.  I figure if people can stand to stay awake long enough to watch them, I might as well try to teach them something.