The value of a tree and easements

[Klunker]

There is going to be a gas line easement coming to a portion of my land.
Its going to go thru a section of my woods.
The woods are mostly Shagbark Hickory, probably 80%.
Everything on the easement is going to be eliminated.
So I have maybe 3/4 of an acre of trees.
The average age/size of the trees are 75-90yrs old/10-14" DBH.
Only 2-3 larger trees that I might cut and have sawn up for lumber for myself.

So my issue is what value does a tree have. Firewood value, lumber value but what about the entire environment including the trees that is going to be eliminated?

If one says that tree is only worth $25 in firewood I say fine, instead of paying me for the firewood just replace the tree. You can't replace a 75 year old 10" hickory tree much less 3/4 of an acre of them. I don't want to sell you the trees, I want to keep the trees so your offer of firewood or lumber value is not enough for me to sell. But I have to sell more or less.

This illustrates my last point.
Included in this is a field that I planted 12 Burr Oaks about 7-8 years ago. I bought those trees as 12" seedlings, put a tree protector around them. These trees are now up to 8-9 ft tall and 7 of them are in the easement meaning they will be gone too. I have pointed out to the Gas company that its not the couple dollars that I have in these trees and even with a couple of more bucks for my time. No, the problem is the time that it took to grow these trees to 8ft. I have looked and found Nurseries that  sell larger Burr Oaks in containers that can be planted using a tree spade. The trees alone run anywhere from $300-$800 ea plus the cost to get them to me and to have them planted. I'd bet that would be close to $4000-$5000 for the 7. Plus this portion of the field has been seeded with prairie grasses and forbs to the tune of several hundred more dollars. Also in the woods is an area that was seeded with native grasses and forbs to the tune of approx $1000 for 5000sq ft.

The gas company is very receptive to paying for either moving or replacing my 7 planted Burr Oaks along with the previous seeding work done. On top of paying for the Burr Oaks and the seeding they will seed the entire area (field and woods) with any seed mix I specify. That'll run into $4000-$5000 conservatively for the 1 1/4 total approx acres. On top of them paying for the value of the woods I will get the logs and whatever they chip. This is a money saver for them or they would have to pay to haul them and dispose of them.

My concern is what do I charge them for the woods? What are these trees/environment worth?
I'd like some comments on this.

In their first offer (incorrect due to incorrect land survey) they offered approx. $10,000/acre for the easement itself and $2500 for the trees. They told me quite quickly without any hesitation on their part that this is a rough offer and I should and they expect me to counter offer at a higher number. They know the Oaks, seeding work plus the woods are more important to me than the money for the easement itself.

Sorry for the long post, but I think its helpful to give a fuller context in whats going on.
There is no fighting the easement, this Gas line will happen and they aren't going to move it just for me. Eminent domain is a real thing here. That topic has been explored.
So thanks for any replies.

[dougtrr2]

I have a natural gas easement across my property.  They did some major work on the line two years ago.  I had some issues that they took care of to my satisfaction.  My advice would be to get the name of the person that has the authority to make the deal with you, so you don't get bounced around the bureaucracy.

If it happens to be a natural gas line, see if you can negotiate a farm tap.  The original 1930s easement on my line entitled me to a farm tap.  I had to pay for the tap ($1500?) and the gas I use, but being out in the country it beats propane.

Doug in SW IA

[WV Sawmiller]

   If the gas company will move the oaks where would they move them to? Do you have a spot you want them moved to?

   Is there a market for hickory for smoker or BBQ wood? Hickory around here is pretty low value wood.

   Can your State Forestry Dept suggest someone who can cruise the location and give you a value for the trees? I'd check with them,

   Is the line going through a large section of deep forest? If so it may result is some prime wildlife habitat due to the Edge Effect it is creating and might be a prime spot to build a permanent deer blind if you hunt. Such lines and narrow open areas are often not the natural disaster Wannabe Environmental Warriors want to paint them as being.

   I agree on the tap for the gas if it is close enough to use. I have and love my natural gas.

   I accept some loss in the name of progress which sounds like this will be and just try to adapt and make the best of the new conditions. Please try to be fair and reasonable with the gas line folks as long as they reciprocate. If you make it too costly to them they can take it to the courts and the court will determine the value which may be a lot less than your previous offers. 

[SawyerTed]

For your own education, a consulting forester could help value the trees. Hire your own.  You will have an informed position from which to negotiate. 

To the gas company, those trees are weeds.  They are of no value to them and want them gone at the lowest possible cost.  

You only get one chance to get anything from them for the trees.  

[Klunker]

Taps are not allowed on this line (12" dia.) I looked into that already.
Besides that I'd need to run the tap thru 1/4 mile of woods to get to the house.

I don't think a forester is a good source for value as they only see the value in cords or boards, they don't look at the value in habitat or environment lost.

I know a wooded lot is much more valuable as opposed to a open lot with nothing on it in real estate terms.

The line is running right along an existing edge, increasing deer habitat is of no value to me as there are already too many deer. They are a detriment to the place.
The easement is approx 75ft wide running approx 900ft in length.

I'm sure there is a balancing point that the gas line has, if I ask for too much they will fight me in court. Lets be honest fighting in court costs them too. 

I'm going to move the 7 Oaks this spring and add that cost to my list. I have room as the field that they are in is about 1 3/4 acres and the easement runs along one side of it leaving lots of room to put them.

I'm not mad or really even bothered that much by this. I just would like to see this as a improvement to the land after all is done and said. I'm going to seed the newly opened area into Native grasses and forbs making it a better edge than it is now.

I use wood to heat my home the trouble is this will give me alot more wood than I can use in a couple of years meaning the wood will start rotting before I can get at it. I have gone thru this sort of glut of wood before when a tornado went thru the place about 7-8 years ago. I still have wood from then that is rotting away right now. Making firewood for sale is more work than its worth. I have tried to sell logs in  8ft lengths and no takers. I had to give something like 90 cords of wood away last time just to get rid of it. The trees just aren't large enough for decent lumber. Lots of guys around who heat with wood but they aren't willing to pay much for the wood as there is enough "free wood" around.

I think I'm going to work up a cost to cover everything add my labor in to do some of this and see what happens. If they balk I'll give on the $10,000/acre easement money but not the restoration costs. Easement costs are taxable, restoration costs are tax fee.

[jb616]

I sold an easement to the power company here 4 years ago. My son works on pipelines and he advised me that they will do 3 negotiations which proved to be true. My 1/4 mile was all wooded but nothing considered "valuable ". They were going to let me keep all logs over 8 inches and they would stack them and buck them to 8ft. The rest would be chipped. The first counter offer i gave was around 400% of their first offer. The second at 300%, and final was double their first offer which they accepted. They will probably seize it if you are too "unreasonable ". Just get EVERYTHING  in writing. They did run into some neighbors that wouldn't budge and abandoned the project...after I was paid 

[Klunker]

they aren't abandoning the project. They have to do this to satisfy a power station that is getting larger and needs the gas. They supplying the gas is mandated by the state.

I asked for a separate contract which spells out how all the restoration work is to be done and when. Also It will spell out the logs and chips. I'm told by the gas co that the feds. require them to restore the land back to its original state. In that they can't leave logs and chips. But what they will do is leave them for a couple of months before they pick them up. If they "disappear" in the mean time, "oh, well".

[Ron Wenrich]

The timber won't be valued any more than other stumpage value.  The only time you get more than that is when it is around houses and used as landscape.  Big difference.  They aren't taking the trees, so you are still considered whole and you can sell them or use them yourself.  You may get more for it being a forced sale and a sale of a small amount of material, which is hard to market.  But, you're not talking big bucks.

You said that this is already an edge environment.  Is this simply widening that edge or is it going deep through a forested area?  If you're just widening the edge, I'm not too sure you can make the environmental case effectively.  At least from a monetary standpoint.  Maybe a biologist would be better than a consulting forester. 

I think you have a good plan about planting natural grasses and forbs.  But, gas lines do require maintenance, which often involves mowing.  Just keep that in mind for future use.

The big thing to figure out is how it will effect your future usage of your property.  Then figure out how much that's worth to you.

[SawyerTed]

I don't think a forester is a good source for value as they only see the value in cords or boards, they don't look at the value in habitat or environment lost.

Your experience must differ from mine in using a consulting forester.  

[Ron Scott]

Yes, a certified professional consulting forester would provide an all-resource damage assessment unless they are told to do otherwise.

That would be an assessment of soil, air, water, wildlife, timber, recreation, and aesthetic values lost. 

[reedco]

Hello as pipeliner and contractor, I would ask about depth of cover on the line. I would ask for at least 5 feet so you don't ever have to worry about it washing out or hitting it. Standard could be 4 feet. Another foot won't them very much

[Klunker]

The timber won't be valued any more than other stumpage value.  The only time you get more than that is when it is around houses and used as landscape.  Big difference.  They aren't taking the trees, so you are still considered whole and you can sell them or use them yourself.  You may get more for it being a forced sale and a sale of a small amount of material, which is hard to market.  But, you're not talking big bucks.

You said that this is already an edge environment.  Is this simply widening that edge or is it going deep through a forested area?  If you're just widening the edge, I'm not too sure you can make the environmental case effectively.  At least from a monetary standpoint.  Maybe a biologist would be better than a consulting forester. 

I think you have a good plan about planting natural grasses and forbs.  But, gas lines do require maintenance, which often involves mowing.  Just keep that in mind for future use.

The big thing to figure out is how it will effect your future usage of your property.  Then figure out how much that's worth to you.

First off they are taking the trees. As I previously mentioned by Fed. decree they can't leave them, they have to "restore" the land back. That means as a usual operating procedure they will take the trees. The nod and wink is that they don't take them immediately, they leave them sit for a couple of months before removal. If they disappear in the mean time they really don't care, it saves them money in haul and disposal fees. They are not in the business of making firewood or selling logs. The trees are just a hindrance to them. They would rather it was farm land or open fields.

It is widening an existing edge. As  matter of fact the edge was created by the existing gas line easement that is already there. The new line is going to be approx 50 ft to the side of the existing line. Its for an increased need for gas at a power plant. So they need a bigger easement than they already have.

As far as them maintaining the easement, the current easement has never been maintained. Its over grown with lots of small Ash trees and other brush. This will be cleaned up in this new easement. They are going to push all the dirt toward the old easement.

As far as my use I can do what I ever I want on top of the easement other than plant trees and build any structures. I can hunt on it, plant a garden (as long as there are no fruit trees) make trails for rec. use or what ever else I want to do on the land other than the 2 things I mentioned above.

What I'm going to do is plant it in native grasses and forbs like what has been done in other areas of my place. It just increases the size of the already planted/seeded areas.

Thanks  for your comments.

[Klunker]

I don't think a forester is a good source for value as they only see the value in cords or boards, they don't look at the value in habitat or environment lost.

Your experience must differ from mine in using a consulting forester. 

apparently it does. I have had one come thru the place shortly after buying it and his concern was stocking rates and what I had as marketable timber at the time. Altho he was told what I was interested in he seem indifferent to it. He pointed out individual trees that stood out to him at the time, only in a marketable way tho, all I heard was boards and cords.

Maybe just a bad player. I have heard from others who have dealt with him similar things as my experience with him.

But I do think like mentioned by someone else a biologist might be a better choice. I have had one come thru the place once. A very knowledgeable person, he could tell you about the past of your land by what currently grows there and what type of ecosystems were there previously. He could name every plant that he ran across, pointed out rare ones, invasive ones and unusual stuff. A totally different outlook on the land, a much more complete one in my mind.

Thanks for your comment.

[Klunker]

Hello as pipeliner and contractor, I would ask about depth of cover on the line. I would ask for at least 5 feet so you don't ever have to worry about it washing out or hitting it. Standard could be 4 feet. Another foot won't them very much

they are going 4ft deep. Washing out is not a concern, no issues around here with large runoff events. One advantage to planting with natives grasses and forbs (prairie plants), their root systems go down several feet.

No need to worry about hitting something 4ft down, I won't be doing any plowing or digging in the easement. Again, no trees or building allowed there.

thanks for the mention tho.

[SawyerTed]

Was the consulting forester someone you hired?

When you say you had them "come through" doesn't sound like an ongoing business relationship.

We actively sought and hired the consulting forester we use.  We've used the same guy for 20 years.  We have a forestry plan that keeps our property tax rate at the ag/forestry rate.   It has to be updated periodically and we have to show a certain amount of activity to maintain the rate.  Our forester keeps up with what we need to do and when. 

Part of the activity is habitat improvement and management for small game, turkey and deer.  

[Klunker]

Was the consulting forester someone you hired?

When you say you had them "come through" doesn't sound like an ongoing business relationship.

We actively sought and hired the consulting forester we use.  We've used the same guy for 20 years.  We have a forestry plan that keeps our property tax rate at the ag/forestry rate.  It has to be updated periodically and we have to show a certain amount of activity to maintain the rate.  Our forester keeps up with what we need to do and when.

Part of the activity is habitat improvement and management for small game, turkey and deer. 

No, it was a initial walk thru. As I said I wasn't impressed at all due to his singular focus.

My place is small, only 26 acres, of which approx 20 are woods. I'm not concerned about the commercial value of my woods. Or the habitat value to small game, deer or turkey. Instead I am restoring native species that have been eliminated due to past abuses. Bringing the place closer to what it once was. Pretty much all of the things I do end up helping many different types of wildlife beside game species tho. The 2 open fields were once a hay field and a ag field. They have been transferred into prairie plantings. Approx 5 acres of the woods has been thinned heavily and seeded with native woodland grasses and forbs. Some of these areas were void of any vegetative growth due to the exssive shade. Others were just a carpet of sugar maple seedlings. They now have waist high grasses and forbs.  I regularly do prescribed burns in both the prairie and the woodlands.

Its a different approach to managing land than most have.

Thanks for your comment.

[Klunker]

Update,

well looks like the value of 1 acre of my woods is approx $20,000, at least to the Gas company.

That will cover the work to "restore" the acre. Can't plant trees over the right of way which is approx 2/3 of the area.
The rest I can plant trees, so I'll seed the whole acre with a prairie/woodland edge type of mix, plant maybe 10 White Oaks in the 1/3 and manage it with frequent burns protecting the Oaks till they get big enough, maybe not in my life tie tho.