pine tree types

[peterbrinson]

Removed so you will scroll to the 08:53:10 PM post, which is comprehensive.

[doc henderson]

most resinous pines will be flammable, dry is worse.  for ID, might help to get a close up of some needles and see length and groups (2 or 3 or 5).

[peterbrinson]

Removed so you will scroll to the 08:53:10 PM post, which is comprehensive.

[SwampDonkey]

What state are you in Peter? That will help narrow the identification down. 

Also please use the forum gallery to post any photos, that way they don't disappear if some 3rd party host  decides to purge photos, and that has happened in the past. You'll see a Gallery link across the top of the thread. Right click it and have it open in a new tab. In there the link on the far right [My Profile] along the top allows you to make albums. You need albums to upload a photo to. You'll need to select an album to upload a photo.   If you upload any photos a new screen will come up with thumbnails, click on the photo and some code shows up below beside 3 different lines, such as ' BBCode (normal):' You can copy that and paste into your open tab that you started the post in. Or if the post window is in view on that first tab, you can click and hold down the mouse on the code in the gallery tab and drag and drop in the post. Where ever the cursor is in the first tab, the code will drop there when you release the mouse [the flashing cursor | should appear where the insertion point is].

[beenthere]

Altadina is in California. A pic of the needle bundle would help.

[SwampDonkey]

I either missed that place or it was edited in. 

[SwampDonkey]

At this point I'm thinking either ponderosa or Jeffrey pine. Both have needles in 2's or 3's on the same tree and needle length is 5-11" on each species. Some (very few) botanists may not distinguish the two, but the overwhelming consensus is two species. Pinyon or nut pine is also possible. There is a lot of variability, like needles of 1 to 5 in bundles. There is much hybridization between 4 species of this group. But the seed will be large and edible by humans. The two smaller cones could be from a pinyon pine sp..

[peterbrinson]

Thank you.
Yes, we had fires in Los Angeles in January and my community needs to decide the order of what to cut down this summer vs the following summer, to mitigate fire danger.

Please label each of the 3 trees only one:  A=most flammable; B=middle flammable; C=least flammable (of the 3)

Below the pictures of #1a AND #1b are cones and needles unfortunately mixed together, found on the ground, so I don't know what goes with what.

#1a - Compared to #1b and #2 is this A=most flammable? B=middle flammable? C=least flammable?


#1b - Compared to #1a and #2 is this A=most flammable? B=middle flammable? C=least flammable?

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Ok, moving on.  Another tree, in a different place – #2.  These cones and needles belong to this one tree.  - Compared to #1a and #1b is this A=most flammable? B=middle flammable? C=least flammable?

[Texas Ranger]

Pine trees have resin, some more some less, but all burn with some degree of heat.  Fires in California do not seem to bother with species.  You should look at fire breaks/barriers rather than species.

[SwampDonkey]

The needles shown in all the photos are longer than pinyon pines. Jeffery pine cones are quite a bit bigger than ponderosa pine cones. These two pines can cross pollinate so you can get hybrids.

[thecfarm]

You should look at fire breaks/barriers rather than species.

I would take his advice. 

[peterbrinson]

That makes sense. 
The fires were caused by embers flying long distances in the air before landing on something flammable.  Then a wall of fire moved through relatively dense neighborhoods (populated by people who didn't know they were in risky neighborhoods). 

Five miles south of those mountains, I'm in a small 5 building townhouse community that have no other structures within 100 feet.  So it sounds like if I can turn our surrounding property into a "fire break", that's a good goal. 

And you are saying that choosing one of these pine trees over another is missing the point.

***And so: I'm thinking I'll prioritize pine trees, cypress, and bougainvillea?

Thank you.


(A side note: Our homes were built 40 years ago with materials that seem to be smart choices). 

[Texas Ranger]

"And you are saying that choosing one of these pine trees over another is missing the point."

In your life time species is a non essential. Look for form, size location, variety  and potential for hazard.  Protecting structures is the point.

[beenthere]

An available water supply to some sprinkler heads for the buildings makes sense to me. For a water supply, capturing and storing water when available seems one priority. The loss of homes is tragic, for sure. 

[peterbrinson]

beenthere, are you saying that wetting down the buildings or the surrounding grounds - when we're on fire alert - can help? 

Texas Ranger, it sounds like we should hire an expert to visit. 

[doc henderson]

some even put sprinklers on the roof.

[Ianab]

While no fire suppression system is 100%, you improve your chances with firebreaks and active suppression like sprinklers. 

If you have a real firestorm where the fire is jumping from treetop to treetop with the wind, then you are pretty much boned (Run Away). A lower intensity fire can be fought / defended against. Some plants are much less flammable than others. Every tried burning an Agave, a green fern, or a wet lawn? The real firestorm will off course take them as well, but a "grass fire" will probably just bypass them, and hopefully the house they are planted around. 

[SwampDonkey]

With all the fires out there over the years, it's high time there becomes more mitigation measures. The old timers here never had woods up around there houses, was pasture land or tillage of sorts and there might be a couple or three old maple yard trees. Where I live at, we haven't had a wildfire for 100 years. Other parts of the province yes, we will get one bad year every few years, but nothing like the Miramachi fire of the 1800's.

[peterbrinson]

Great, I've been studying fire breaks, especially recommendations for southern California, as there are online resources no doubt.  (How to shape the property Within 5', 30', 100' and so on).

But I'd really like to hire an expert to look at our property for just a couple of hours, to give us detailed advice.  It's clear that expertise in this field goes a long way.

I've been searching on the internet for "fire break advice, Los Angeles county" and you can imagine it's hard for me to know what I'm getting into.

(I skimmed you guys' location in your posts.  You all live far away  

If my idea for finding an advisor makes sense, how would you go about it?

Thank you.

[doc henderson]

well since the state of CA is a big part of the problem, I would check with FEMA and see if they have resources in the area.  they may just have printed stuff or may send someone out, if they are not already overwhelmed.  If you reach a federal worker, they are also good at telling you "You have the wrong department" and be sure to ask which next department to call.

[doc henderson]

If I were stuck in CA, I would begin collection of rainwater and even gray water if able (tough after the building is done) to use for fire mitigation and fighting.  Sadly. the state may lay claim to your rainwater and even your bath water.

[peterbrinson]

Doc, it's a great idea because we often have a reasonably wet 3 months in the winter.  But then little for 9 months, hence our climate. 

I'm able to fill my 55 gallon drum in 15 minutes the way our gutters are set up.  Seems like I should have 100 of those, if that were practical.

[doc henderson]

we are in ag country and all of the farm stores carry 1500-gallon tanks.  we have two of them on a well.  all our rainwater gores to one corner of the 3-acre property.  any storage has to be planned so animals and small children do not fall in.  we do not do gray water as we bought our house used. we have a pool that is 68,000 gallons so a small pump and we have lots if water for fire even if the water tower runs dry... that does not happen in Ks.