How long will Red Pine last

[Kingcha]

Hi all, been sawing for about 12 years or more now.   Normally I cut down 5-7 (30+ logs) red pines a year and mill for myself.     

  The power company is in the process of building a new line so late last fall they cut down a lot of my red pines. Not sure the exact count but some where in the neighborhood if 180 - 8 foot logs.   

So my question is how long do you think I have to get them cut up?  2 years, 3 years.   Before they are no good

I think my biggest worry is the pine beetles as we have had them in the past.
They are all stacked off the ground.  I know they might get the blue stain which is ok, i just do not have the set--up to sticker stack all that lumber as this is a one time bonanza.   

My hope is to maybe cut up half of them or maybe a little less.   I am going to use a few of the logs for a small log building.    My hope was next year as I start to flat stack this years wood I wood free up space and stickers.   

Thanks in advance
Matt B.

[beenthere]

Saw up what you can at a reasonable, enjoyable pace, and stop when the quality is less than your happy point. 
You will then know the answer. May be more than three years, maybe not. 

[thecfarm]

Good to see you posting.

[barbender]

Hey Kingcha! I've found that the younger the red pine are, the faster they degrade. If they have a lot of sapwood, they degrade quickly. If you can stack them where you can put a sprinkler on them, and keep them wet, that helps. 

The worst degrade I had on pine logs was the summer that we had a bad drought. That surprised me. The borers really wreaked havoc on those logs. 

I like to tell people I have an experimental log decay and degrade site😊 Just not on purpose. I tend to saw everything to order, and for that I have to keep logs on hand. Some always end up sitting too long for one reason or another.

[SwampDonkey]

Like beenthere said, just saw until they are no good anymore if you have nowhere to keep them. Only other option is sell a bunch, mills want fairly fresh logs though. It's a heavy pine, maybe someone buys biochips by the ton for power gen. Maybe some personal firewood, it's tough wood to split. But makes nice heat, I used one yard tree for firewood before.

[KWood255]

I had red pine logs in my yard that were piled off the ground, where the last few were 4 years before they were sawn. There was nothing wrong with them aside from some discolouration on the end with sun exposure. I can only assume some type of bleaching etc from constant exposure (light brownish colour). This entered up to maybe 18" on some logs. 

For reasons unknown, I had zero problems with insects on my red pine logs, even after 4 years. We will have bugs in spruce within a year. 

[Jeff]

At the big mill in Harrison, we sawed mostly hardwood but occasionally had pine in the yard because when you buy timber and run your own woods crews, it accumulates. From my experience here in Michigan, get em off the ground on log stringers, then get them sawed no later than after the first winter.

[DanielW]

If it were and I had limited time and unknown use for them, I'd just cant them up into the largest squares that they'll make, stick & stack them, then in the future resaw them as-needed to whatever lumber you need. If you cant them up into 6X6 or 8X8 squares (or whatever you can get out of them) and sticker them somewhere with decent air-flow and a roof over top (even if it's just a few old sheets of roofing tin placed on top of the stacks), they're not going to go too bad anytime soon.

It sounds like you don't really need the lumber, so I'd probably break them down directly into squares and toss the slabs - avoid all the edging. It may not be the most efficient use of the log, but it's still a lot easier, faster, and more efficient then letting most of the logs rot.

[Mooseherder]

I had taken 14 Red Pine trees out for the power company to run in a power pole.  My mill wasn't finished yet and they sat for 3 years off the ground but deteriorated before milling. My brother used them to heat his shop and was happy to have them.  It would have been nice to have milled them sooner for the lumber.

[Magicman]

I discouraged and turned down a job this morning which would have been sawing dead Pine logs.  I continue to tell folks that just because you have the dead trees, is no reason to saw the logs into lumber unless you have a need for that lumber.

Don't saw lumber that you do not need with money that you may not have. 

[barbender]

If you try to cant that pine up, there's a good chance they will check and/or twist, and lead to a lot of loss. I'd sooner take my chance on leaving them in the log pile.

[Jeff]

Yea, I tried that with Tamarack one time. Do not cant up pine. Way better off storing it if you have to store it in log form off the ground.

[barbender]

Oof, tamarack makes red pine look well behaved!😊

Personally, I wouldn't worry about skids. Again, experience from my log decay study😁 has shown that the pine logs at the bottom of the pile and in contact with the ground actually suffer less degrade than the other logs. They are kept wet by the ground. I don't know why this is, but I've seen it time and again. 

There's a reason a lot of pine mills keep sprinklers on their log piles.

[Kingcha]

Thank you all, very helpful.  Yesterday I finished up log #35.  I have built 2 new drying racks with covers and they are full along with my other area that I have for air drying.   I had thought about canting them up but dismissed that do to my mill being a small manual mill and getting those cants off would not be good for my body.   Sorta glad to here that they don't do that well anyways.  Not sure I have enough hose to get to where they are located but I just might try to keep them damp this summer.   I am done milling boards for awhile and will be switching over to milling 3 sided logs for a log structure i am building.  Will continue working on that until it is weathered in then it will be back to milling boards.  I almost think I might go thru 50-60 logs right there.   At this point i will just saw what i can this year, my guessing leaving about 60 logs for next year which depending on the winter will be sawed up by June 2026 that way they will only go thru one summer.   They are already off the ground and will keep them that way.   In the next few days I will measure the distance and check if my hoses will reach.  I believe it will be close.

[Kingcha]

This is how far I got done last year on the log building

[Kingcha]

Guess I got relearn this site  lol  

[customsawyer]

Looking at the knots in that picture, it looks like you are making a two sided cant, then splitting it in half. Thus giving you 2 three sided logs. Is this correct?

[Kingcha]

Looking at the knots in that picture, it looks like you are making a two sided cant, then splitting it in half. Thus giving you 2 three sided logs. Is this correct?

I might try that with the logs i have now but the logs I had last year where small.   Those are just from one log each.   I should have tried doing that with a couple of the logs but did not think about it soon enough as this is the first time I have ever done something like this.   The way i did it, did net me some boards but actually slowed me down.    I think I the perfect log would be 9-10 inches.   Thank you though as this reminds me to try that trick as it would make it faster.   

[barbender]

I think Jake was just asking if you did, not suggesting that you should. If you split them down the middle, they will tend to bow towards the outside of the log. Maybe not, all you can do is try one I guess.

[customsawyer]

It was just an observation on my part. I was curious, because if I tried that with our pine then I would have banana shaped logs, and it would look like some of that Chinese architecture. 

[barbender]

Yes Red Pine will tend to do the same I think, Jake.

[Kingcha]

Yes Red Pine will tend to do the same I think, Jake.

Did not think about the bending, but it makes sense.  I am using 9 inches screws to attach them.   I wonder if that would keep them from bending will that is if every other layer was from a single log. 
Maybe its best to just keep getting them out of one log.   Well today is the day I start back on this so maybe I will find the perfect log and do just a few.   The goal is to use up the smaller logs (8") first.  Well time to go sort the pile and think about this    Good thing I am retired and time is not an issue  

[Kingcha]

Ok now I have more questions, lol.    So today the first two logs where small ones so I just cut one log out of them and a few small boards.    But then I got to the 3rd log and it was bigger so I was able to get two out of it.    Like you had asked, i cut opposite sides than cut it in half.  Well not really half, I cut it at 4 1/8 from the bottom then put the top back on and made a cut to get it flat and was able to get a board or 2 of it.   

I am cutting these 3 side logs at 6" in height(flat to flat) and about 4 1/8 to 4 1/4 front to back depending on the log face shape.   

So once I finished cut those I looked at the first 2 that i cut out of one log.  Really almost the same do to the size I am cutting them.  One of them was cut right at the center of the log and the other  the center was  gone.  Now the logs I used last year ranged 7 to 9 inch in width and None of them curved on me.  So the question is do to the size I am cutting them does it really matter if i get 2 out of a 10 inch log or one out of a 7-8 inch log as far as it turning into a banana.      I hope to get what i cut screwed done in place in the next 2-3 days and then keep an eye one them.    A perfectly straight 8.5 log is idea to get 2 logs out and no other boards.     Thank you for your thoughts

[customsawyer]

You will have better luck if you are able to remove most of the juvenile core from the log. Mine would be bowing before it came off the mill, and would only get worse as it dried. 

[Kingcha]

To remove more of the Juvenile core then i would think using a bigger log would help do that, but that then defeats my purpose of using up the smaller logs.   I think if I just mix the up(1 per log, 2 per log) and get them screwed down to the others I will be ok, well I hope so 
I have had 4x4 and 4x5 twist as they dry but have been pretty lucky on other project if i build green and get them screwed down.

One thing I forgot to mention is these trees are slow growing(Northern Michigan), never thinned and at least 55-60 years old if not older.  I will have to check with my brother in law as I think these where planted in the 1960's or early 70's.     
 Many of the trees inside the patch are only 12-13 inches at 4ft.  For the last 12 years i have been cutting all the bigger ones that i could get to.
Again thank you