When to Give Up on a Potential Customer

[YellowHammer]

I get some of the same questions so many times I have these canned answers, it's almost a reflex.  Sometime people laugh, sometimes they don't, but as soon as they ask, I lose interest in them.    

Them: "I know what the price list says, but what is your bottom dollar?"  Me: "What it says on the price list, that's why I spent all that money on paper to print it out."

Them: "Why does the lumber cost that much, don't people just give you the logs for free?" Me: "No, do people give you logs for free?"

Them: "I just do woodworking as a hobby, don't you have any free wood?" Me: "Sure, it's over there in the burn pit, it's still smoking, and if you fall in while you are getting it, I will just cover you up and sell your car, which one is it?"

Them: "Why won't you deliver it?"  Me: "Why won't you come pick it up?"

Them:  "I'm retired, I can't afford to pay much for wood, what can you do for me?" Me: "If you don't have any money, maybe you should go ask for your old job back."

Them: "Do you ever put anything on sale?"  Me: "Sure, yesterday we had 50% off, you just missed it."

And my personal favorite, "I don't have any credit cards, I don't have any cash, will you take a personal check?"  Me: "Uh No, but does your wife have any cash? She is standing right there."

[thecfarm]

There are some that is just looking for something for nothing.
If they are selling it, it's worth top dollar. If you are selling the same thing to them, it's worth bottom dollar.

I've had some that would ask me about sawing for them when we had the green house-veggie business.
I do not saw for others, just for me. 
Just like the past post posts, they keep asking!! I come out with some stupid high price and that shuts them up!!!

I know the above won't work if you are sawing for money.

[Resonator]

 He kept asking for lower prices, as he needed to make a profit. 

That's where if they are selling it on the market for a higher price, I will sell it myself for that full price.

Them: "Do you ever put anything on sale?"  Me: "Sure, yesterday we had 50% off, you just missed it."

Kind of like the old bar sign: "Free beer tomorrow".
Guy comes back the next day expecting free beer. 
Owner says: "Nope, sign says tomorrow".

[PAmizerman]

I know it's a lost cause when the first question they ask is "do you have any more pictures"

[teakwood]

some of my experiences:

"need 5m long boards", me: what do you need them for?
"i make a 1m high fence and i will cut 5 boards out of them!?   

the 5m long board cost twice what the 5x 1m boards cost

"why?? i thought one board is cheaper than 5!!" 



then i had a subcontractor ask me, " do you know how to read a plan? we need to get the total m2 out of it for the teak ceilings"

yes i know how to read a plan, but of course a huge red flag came up. i still did it for him, took me an hour and turned out to be 350m2 (3800 sqft) which is a pretty big order. knowing that i did the work for him and that he now has the total m2 to get quotes from other suppliers.
the guy did buy some orders from me in the past so what the heck.

he came back: kinda high price for you lumber but the client is asking for premium tyg and i know your lumber is high quality. me: yeah, that's my price!
last week i heard back from him that his customer confirmed the order and he will receive advance payment in 2 weeks.
we will see, but it's a 12k $ tyg order so it's worth the extra work. 

[Big_eddy]

My son got a call yesterday on his firewood number.
"Do you have any slab wood?"
" As it happens, I have a pile by the sawmill, maybe half a pickup load"
"How much?"
"You can have it for free, just come and get it".  
"Is that all you have, I'm looking for a lot more"
"I'm in the firewood business, not the slab business, so no. These just happen to be here now." (We'd just cut the framing lumber for his bunkie build
"Will you deliver it?"
CLICK!

[SawyerTed]

And my personal favorite, "I don't have any credit cards, I don't have any cash, will you take a personal check?"  Me: "Uh No, but does your wife have any cash? She is standing right there."

I was at a formal function in the state capital, tuxedos and evening gowns.  Emily and I were invited by the state superintendent of schools who we both had known for many years.   Some of her staff we didn't know so well.

One of the staff who didn't know us well was taking photos and asked me to get my wife for the photo.  "Um, aaahhh she's not here," I said.  

Staff person says, " That's her in the blue gown isn't it?" It was but I didn't say so. 

Me:  "Oh no.  She's my date.  Do me a favor and don't mention this to my wife and don't take any photos of us" me pointing at Emily. 

The lady's face was priceless!  

Later I noticed the staff lady talking to the state superintendent, pointing at Emily and I.   The superintendent confirmed that indeed the lady in the blue dress was my wife, Emily.  She was MAD!

The staff lady immediately went to Emily and told her that I claimed she was "just" my date.  Emily looked her and said, " Well I AM his date."

Later on the staff member and I buried the hatchet, became friends and still laugh about that.  

[Kingcha]

I had a guy to call yesterday.  He had about 80 Pine "logs", 20' length and 8"-20" diameter.  That ain't logs, that is pulp wood.

I had to tell him no and then explain why.  Plantation Pine trees with 1/2"+ growth rings will not saw and produce anything close to usable lumber.  He was disappointed but we both would have been had I attempted to saw what he had.  Sometime the best response is to just say no.

The conversation never even got to sawing rates.

I think this answers a question of mine about my red pine NOT curving like a banana.   Though mine where planted all together in a 2+ acre patch, they where never thinned and have grown slow.   I think my biggest ring is about 3/16 and most being under an 1/8 inch..     Thank you Magicman

[Dave Shepard]

These days I tend to try and give up on a potential customer as soon as possible. If they are real persistent, show promise of good behavior, and maybe bribe me with donuts, I might give them a chance.  

Anytime anyone acts like they are doing me a favor by being my customer, it's over. I grew up on a dairy farm, being broke comes as natural to me as swimming does to a fish.

[moosehunter]

I know it's a lost cause when the first question they ask is "do you have any more pictures"

I had my backhoe on mp. I put up 18 pictures in the add. One guy says " can you send me more pictures?" NO!

[240b]

yesterday, guy calls." I've 8 thousand feet of logs, i expect 10 thousand feet of sawn lumber out of the pile. Im third generation sawyer i know. "  oh boy.  " How much a ft to saw it? " .xx cents per foot. " thats twice as much as I ever paid."  why don't you have that guy do it?  "He's outta business."  I couldn't hang up fast enough.

[SawyerTed]

At least you didn't get a lecture from your customer on economics.  "It's better for the machine to run at a lower rate than sit.  Blah blah blah economics 101 blah blah."

My response was similar to yours, "if you can get somebody to saw at the rate you want to pay, you need to do it quickly!  I can't compete at that rate.  I would be sawing at a loss, I'm not doing that.  Economics 101 says it's better to lose a little bit sitting still than lose a lot operating at a loss."

About 4 or 5 days later he called back wanting me to saw for him.  He did ask if there was anything HE could do to lower my rate.  I explained his best option was to have good help to keep up, have logs ready, have a cut list and adequate equipment to move logs.  Make sure I'm not having to handle logs, lumber, slabs. Use a chainsaw or anything but operate the mill.  

He finally agreed to my rate, had his ducks in a row and we had a really good day!  At the end of the day he commented that he got more and better lumber than the lower rate guy.  It's cliche but I reminded him that you get what you pay for usually.  

[Magicman]

One of the biggest obstacles that I had to overcome when I first started sawing was the bad reputation of "Mizer Lumber". 

[WV Sawmiller]

   One of my first jobs this year was sawing 8,000 bf of pine into mostly framing lumber. Other than being 75 miles away it was a dream job with plenty of good help, friends folks, lunch included, etc.

   This guy has been calling me for 18 months and I had long given up on it ever happening but he was just slow getting his logs set and kept checking to see if I was still interested. I get lots of such calls that never materialize. He did not try to dicker or get a lower price so sometimes a suspect job works out. I still don't negotiate my prices. I may give discounts for good set up and nice people to work with but caving in up front is a bad mistake and one I just don't make.

[Ianab]

the guy did buy some orders from me in the past so what the heck.

he came back: kinda high price for you lumber but the client is asking for premium tyg and i know your lumber is high quality. me: yeah, that's my price!
last week i heard back from him that his customer confirmed the order and he will receive advance payment in 2 weeks.
we will see, but it's a 12k $ tyg order so it's worth the extra work. 

Because you had some positive history with the client, it was worth the investment of that hour, even if getting the order was a 50/50 thing. Getting a random inquire like that would be a different thing, as it's a much higher chance of it being a "tire kicker". 

Being helpful that like, to the clients you wish to keep, builds up the "goodwill" towards your business. 

I've worked for years in the local IT industry, and we will often spend time scoping out solutions to meet customer needs. Sometimes that work is charged as "consulting", other times it's written of as cost of preparing a quote. But what we end up recommending / selling will work, because we put in that research first, and so we keep those loyal clients. Others just go out and buy whatever, and then call us when things don't work... If we can help, we do, and charge them for the service, but we don't go out of our way to fix their mistakes. 

I've been looking after some of our IT clients since the 80s, and while the original owners have retired or passed away, I'm still the "IT Guy" that comes in to fix / install their gear. 

[longtime lurker]

I'll do a take-off from plan if I have to, or farm it out to an estimator if it's not pretty straight forward.
What I won't do anymore though is itemise that quote. No so many this size so many that size, no this many meters of this and this many meters of that.
Customer details... job details... $$$ including tax.

Yanno I've had a few buck and squeal over that, expecting me to send them back an itemised list. But it's one of those things I've learnt to be completely unyielding on.... you want the itemised list you pay for it. Estimators here run at $80-100 an hour and I am a slow estimator, should have paid a professional and brought me a list.

[WV Sawmiller]

    I sometimes get potential customers who call me and want to know the price to buy or have me saw for them. If they have a cut list and want to call it off to me over the phone and I will plug their sizes and quantities into an excel spread sheet I have on my laptop. As soon as they finish calling in the last number and I type it in the spreadsheet does the math and I can tell them exactly what that much lumber or sawing will cost. I'll tell them the only unknowns, if I am sawing at their site, is mileage and blade fees if I hit metal in their logs.

    I had one customer ask me how much it would cost for me to saw his logs to build cabins he was going to build and rent out. I asked him for his cut list and he wanted me to make one. I told him I could not do that because I did not know if he wanted 2X8 or 2X10 for floor joist, 2X4s or 2X6 for framing, what size or pitch to the roof etc. He did not know either. I told him call me back when he did. I have not heard back from him since.

    I don't mind helping but I am not going to do his work for him.

[SawyerTed]

Surprising how often I get asked how many rafters do you think I need, how many floor joists will it take or should I use 2x6s or 2x8s and so many other "how do I build it?" questions. 

Depending upon the customer we might have a lesson in calculating what they need. Often it's right there with the mill setup and logs waiting - done so at my hourly rate. 

[Magicman]

I very regularly get questions about how many studs are needed. 

[longtime lurker]

I've got a few sets of the more common span tables on the office PC although I make a point to always say "well I'm not an engineer or builder but the span table says..." All care, no responsibility etc etc.

Yanno I don't mind helping people and I've been at this long enough that I don't often have to consult a table anyway, this is that knowing what size and length combinations move and which don't thing. And mostly I work on the principle that my customers pay for the wood and the expertise can come for free. 

Slightly off topic but potential customers are the least of my headaches lately. I've had 2 occasional customers file for bankruptcy in as many months, I haven't been stung yet for anything substantial but I tell ya it's a worry. Potential customers are just nuisance  value compared to the ones who owe you money.

[Cedarman]

I very regularly get questions about how many studs are needed. 

MM, I would tell them just one. ME.

[WV Sawmiller]

LL,

   Customers owing me money is not an issue as my policy is payment on receipt for lumber and upon completion for sawing work. My customers are typically individuals and occasionally a small local business and they are not the ones who get themselves into a bankruptcy situation.

[Dave Shepard]

My former job, not sawmilling, required 50% to get on the schedule, remainder on completion, and I suspect the business was designed to just about run at the 50% down.

[Stephen1]

I ask for %10 down as it deters people from calling last minute and cancelling. In the beginning I had a few of those, as I suspect they would come across someone who would undercut me. 

[teakwood]

50% up front before i even turn on a planer or moulder, 50% before the final product leaves my sawmill! 

That's how it is in Costa Rica and i like it that way, i have been burnt before.
I do have some repeating customers who can pay later.

I do have a pretty nice chunk of second quality tyg with defects so i want to sell it for cheap to people who can not afford premium teak. so i posted a add on marketplace for 10$/m2.

i hate facebook because 90% of the ones who write you are idiots.

the worst one till today: "i need to do a floor, do you give discount??"

he doesn't even know what 10$/m2 stands for and is asking for a discount. and no, you can not use 1/2" tyg for flooring