Portable milling charging question on longer term projects

[newdesertfox]

Was curious to ask for some insight on how or what people may do for portable jobs that are outside of your normal job timewise. I haven't taken sawmill off property for a portable job in probably 2 years but had someone contact me who was 3ish hours away who has a longer term logging job that they were thinking about having a sawmill come out for a 1-2 month job sawing in combo with their logging. 
Other people who've done stuff like that, what were things you wish you had done differently and what did you do fee wise as its a fair bit different then having sawmill at base just charging $100 an hour with all my own loaders etc having logs brought here especially 2.5-3 hours away 1 way

[fluidpowerpro]

I recently had an inquiry like you described however it was only a 3-4 day job. 
I quoted my normal rate plus mileage plus said I  would need to charge for a hotel.
For what you describe i would also quote a separate lower mileage rate for driving home, "unloaded" each weekend.
Due to the expense involved i told him he was better off finding someone closer so I went on sawmill finder and gave him a few names. Although I  didn't get the work, he was appreciative of my help.
I asked him to make sure and tell the next guy how he got the info so hopefully someday he will reciprocate. 

[Magicman]

I have sawed something very similar many times.  I furnish nothing except me and the sawmill.  He furnishes all help and support equipment.  He pays for my normal travel & setup plus my lodging.  He pays the travel rate for my weekend trip home because that is cheaper than lodging for the weekend.  My sawing rate is $125 per hour.  These jobs ranged from one to three weeks and there would be 2-3 sawing instances each year.  The furthest one was 236 miles and I sawed for that customer for 4 years until I passed that job off to another sawyer.  We settled each week's sawing Friday afternoon giving me time to travel home before night.

Don't be hesitant to bid such jobs and do not underbid your sawing services.  Make it worth your time being away from home.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Do you really want to saw that long or that far away? 

   If not, what would it take to make you change your mind? That is what I would charge.

   I did one job that was 2 nights at the customer's campground. I did another job on the way to his site. I took my tent and set up there and charged  per diem for meals and charged for milage. 

   I'd make sure all my expenses were covered and include enough to handle any extra expenses incurred at home, if applicable. (Will you need to get a dog or house sitter or such or have someone mow your grass while you are away?) 

   On all my jobs I tell the customer I get paid at the end of the job or weekly, whichever comes first. You might consider daily if you have concerns. Don't get yourself in a bind. 

   I personally do not like to travel that far because even a small maintenance problem now becomes totally my expense for milage and such. Like Fluid, I often help people find sawyers closer to them and will help advise them on set up issues to make the job go smoother and help them be prepared to answer normal sawmiller type questions.

[Magicman]

I passed that "sand box" job off because the last time I was there my wife fell and broke her arm.  There I was 236 miles away and and helpless.  A grandson carried her to the ER and they were back at home when I got there at 10:15.  I vowed that after I finished that time that I would never leave her again.

[SawyerTed]

I've had a handful of bigger jobs at a distance.  

I discussed my expenses with the customer prior to accepting the job.  We agreed to a board foot plus expenses rate with the customer providing helpers and equipment.  

Much like Howard, we agreed to a per diem for meals and lodging, a mileage rate and board foot rate.   That way they could mitigate expenses if they wanted.   They've provided lunch and other meals. I've stayed in an on property guest house,  a customer owned B&B, a customer provided RV and a hotel at a discount rate arranged and paid by the customer.  

All have been successful jobs but hard on the sawyer.  

[Ianab]

I see three separate issues here. 

One is the distance of the commute. You need to cover the time and costs of moving the gear, then I assume a round trip home each weekend? Accommodation: Are they going to provide something (cabin or RV maybe?), or do you have to factor in a motel or short term rental? So you work out those costs, both a one off mobilisation and a weekly accom / commute. 

Then there is the sawing charge. Now because it's a long term job, lets assume you are going to get in 40 hours of sawing per week. What hours would you normally charge out in a week if you were doing smaller jobs? It would be hard to hit 40 unless you were rounding up a lot of smaller jobs to the next hour. Think of it like hiring a car, the weekly rate is less than the per day rate. Make sure you are still making a profit of course, and fuel / blades / general wear are still the same per hour. But you might find you can drop the hourly rate by say 10% because of the long term nature of the job. Maybe that will cancel out the commute / accommodation costs?

Lastly, do you really want the job? What else is going to suffer if you are away for a month? If you don't NEED the job, but could do it, quote a little higher. If you miss out, never mind. If you get the job, at least it's going to pay well. 

[Magicman]

I am not going to reduce my sawing rate because I am chancing a possible work stopping breakdown.  I had an alternator to die on a job about 275 miles from home.  I had Wood-Mizer to overnight (costly) it to the hotel and I was back sawing by noon the next day.  Total time lost was about 6 hours.  If I had been at home, I would have simply skipped a couple of days for normal shipping.  The only other fairly large breakdowns were hydraulic cylinders.  One loader cylinder blew so I had to have both rebuilt.  Another instance was the clamp cylinder failed and was gradually releasing.  There again, I had to find a hydraulic shop sorta "bleed" to the shop owner that I was in a jam and needed immediate attention.  In both instances, both shops had me going with only about 4 hours lost.  There again, had I been at home, I would have simply skipped a day sawing.  Of course the lost time is on me but the customer is still paying for a hotel room.

Yup, same sawing rate or even possibly an increased rate.  

After Ted's reply above I started thinking about my lodging, etc.  Of course I have stayed at hotels, but also in guest bedrooms, guest houses, neighbor's spare bedroom, RV's, and hunting camps.  Once Luke and I stayed at my daughter's two spare bedrooms.  My customer seldom if ever provides my meals.  If I am staying in a hotel, breakfast is always provided. I take my sandwich making items for lunch, snacks, and refreshments.  I almost always buy my own evening meal.

There were times when PatD would also go in her car and sorta have a "girl's time out" doing whatever women do.  She never stayed for the entire job to be sawed.

Of course I am talking about my past because I never intend to take another overnight job.  I am also limiting my travel distance to not much more than 50 miles which is reducing my annual bf tally but it's time for me to reduce my sawing workload.

 

[WV Sawmiller]

  I am with Lynn rather than Ian on the rate. I certainly would not be reducing my rate and if anything I'd be raising it for the inconvenience of sawing that far off my normal stomping grounds.

  If I'd wanted to work 40 hour weeks I would not have retired.

  Thinking about it I am tempted to establish a progressively higher rate for every day  that I am on a job.

    Honestly I have 2 brothers I saw for who set up 12 miles away. I saw about 1100-1200 bf and they knock off till the next weekend and I am perfectly happy with that arrangement.

[Resonator]

When I was living away from home doing highway construction, it was common to be paid an hourly rate, plus the "per diem" pay. This was a flat rate amount paid for every day I was on the road to help cover meals and lodging costs. This would be one way to simplify billing for being on the road.
Also with hotels it pays to book online to save on the rate. Plus tell the clerk at check in it is for business, construction, if you have a CDL, or any other discounts that they can apply.

[Ianab]

I know my experience is from the IT side. But at one point I was seconded to a local oil company as front line tech support. I was being charged out at less than my normal hourly rate, because I was getting 35-45 hours chargeable in, Every week. That never happened with my regular work as you would get customer interruptions, phone calls, helping the sales guys, warranty work etc. So my hourly rate there reflected fact that a lot of my time wasn't actually billable (But I still had to be paid). 

But once I was full time on the client's clock, then work phone calls, emails and any other work related interruptions were fully chargeable. Once I logged my badge into the door, until I left for the day, company got paid (and so did I). 

I think the same applies with milling work to some degree. If you are doing lots of smaller random jobs, you will be spending non-chargeable time. Scoping out and quoting jobs. Doing only 6 hours work in a day because it's not worth starting another job that day. Taking phone calls etc. It's all time you can't charge for, but you set your hourly rate to account for that. 

It also comes back to point 3: Do you really Want the work? A month of solid work, even at $100 an hour is $16,000. You have to do the maths, deduct all your expenses, and decide if it's worth it. How much would you charge out in a normal month?

[WV Sawmiller]

Ian,

   I understand and agree with your rationale but since I don't want those kind of jobs any more I would not be lowering my rates.

   On my jobs overseas and such we typically got per diem or COLDA (Cost of living Daily Allowance). I know in Cameroon I was provided company housing, maid services, transportation and still got $1300/month COLDA. I bought food off the local vendors and did most of my own cooking and pocketed about $1,000/month of that. If you ate in the westernized cafes and such you would probably have spent the full amount.

[SawyerTed]

In the end, it's whatever the sawyer and customer agree upon.  

Going away from home to do a sawmill job overnight simply costs more than being at home on a sawmill job.  The sawyer and customer just have to agree on the rates for compensation for the sawing and any per diem/travel and what that includes.  

If the customer doesn't want to do a per diem, quote a board foot rate to compensate for it.  Instead of $400/1000, charge $525/1000, for example.  Thats $125 per 1000 board feet to include a per diem amount sufficient to feed and lodge the sawyer.  Anything over 1000 gets billed at the reduced rate.  

There's 100 ways to do it.