Sawing a saw out

[Jim Chance]

I am wondering how others saw a stuck saw out. I have a bar and chain in a 30" storm tree with a ton of bind. Mostly bottom but some side bind.(Long story). I used three wedges with no luck. I usually just cut the log somewhere else and get rid of the bind, but that is not an option here. I have heard some people bore cut parallel to the bar. That seems like it might work. The big problem for me is not sticking the second saw.

[doc henderson]

do you have any lifting equipment?  not sure what you mean by bottom bind.  were you cutting from the top and it settled, and you got pinched, or from the bottom cutting and got pinched?  skid steer, tractor or even a hydraulic jack.  do you have a second bar and chain for the stuck saw?  pictures would be nice.  I think the answer depends on the physical forces at play.  now that you know what happened the way you were sawing, can you predict the movement of a second cut?

[Magicman]

Just use more Chainsaws and Wedges:

[doc henderson]

Good God Lynn.  are those chainsaws and all those wedges still stuck in that tree?!!!      

[Al_Smith]

Well you will always know where it's at .

[doc henderson]

I think I see at least a dozen wedges.  It that how a forestry guy celebrates forestry day (like Christmas)?

[Ianab]

I have heard some people bore cut parallel to the bar. That seems like it might work. The big problem for me is not sticking the second saw.

That is indeed the trick. If you don't read the tension / compression right, then you could end up with a 2nd saw stuck. 

But the idea of bore cutting is that you leave wood above and below the cut so your saw won't pinch. The trick then is to decide if you want to continue the cut up or down.

Yeah, it gets tricky, and potentially dangerous. 

[Jim Chance]

Overview

[Jim Chance]

Top view showing test cuts

[Jim Chance]

End view showing test cuts and where bar is pinched. Picture needs to be rotated but I am not that smart.

[Jim Chance]

By "bottom bind" I mean there is compression in the fiber at the bottom of the log such that your kerf would close.

 The tree is across a steep sided valley on a hiking trail 2 miles from a road. It is not possible to get machinery in and I do not have any anyway.

The root ball is immediately uphill from the trail and the river is immediately down hill. The tree top is across the river.

This is the third blowdown like this we cut. All have been a pain. The binds are so complex that they are impossible to read reliably. They are what I call "indeterminate bind". And the only place you can cut on them is right there at the trail. The ground is too steep to stand much less escape anywhere else.

We tried something new on this one. We made two test cuts about 1/3rd of the diameter deep straight down on each side. We did this to test for side bind. We wanted to identify and relieve any side bind before we cut through the tree for safety reasons. The saw got pinched at the bottom of the second test cuts. I think wedges would have prevented the pinch but they were not used.

The kerfs in the test cuts show compression on the bottom and also some due to side bind on the side we are pinched.

I expect the stump to go up or down. I expect the log to go up, towards the tension side, and then down.

I have other saws, comealongs, and jacks. I might try to constrain the log with a comealong.

My intention is to cut out the bar and chain using a bore cut each side of the bar (which I have never tried), naw a pie on the compression side (which I have tried before with limited success) to relieve the side bind, and then release it by cutting down from the top.

Rather than naw a notch I might make a bunch of parallel cuts on the compression side

[Stephen1]

MM If you leave the saw in long enough the sawmill in a few years will post on here he hit a chainsaw!

[doc henderson]

the pics are helpful.  we may have a different view of tension and compression.  if I had a log suspended on both ends and I was cutting on the middle, I might make a sallow cut in the top or even a notch, then cut up from the bottom, if it is off the ground.  I would consider that to be tension on the bottom (fibers trying to pull apart) and compression on the top (fiber pushing towards the cut).

If you did a bore cut, leaving a trigger at the top and bottom, I would bore, and then trip the bottom trigger expecting the cut ends to fall to the ground, releasing the bar.  I have also done a series of cuts parallel to ech other.  they can be "test" cuts and weaken the pinch the log can exert on the bar.  If you are concerned, you watch the gap like a hawk and pull out at the first sing of closure.

[doc henderson]

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=cutting+logs+under+tension+and+compression+techniques&mid=327DF5056D940658CD68327DF5056D940658CD68&FORM=VIRE

[doc henderson]

I would be most concerned with top and bottom. gravity is the big factor.  If cutting from the top and the far side closes and not the near, there may be some side stress, but the uncut other half of the tree should keep that in check.  Is you saw stuck in a top or bottom cut, or one of these side test cuts?

looks like the second side cut.  did the first cut open up also?

if the ends are both touching, but there is significant up lift from the heavy root ball, then it could be reversed.  If on a slope, stay on the uphill side.  do not cut alone.  As far as you are walking, a second bar and chain would be nicer to carry than a second saw.  sharp sharp chain so you can cut fast.  read the opening and watch, anticipating and reacting to any movement, like pulling the bar put so it does not get pinched.  use the wedges.  Have fun and do not die.  If you find you have significant side tension, the come along may be able to support the log and stabilize the kerf.

[Al_Smith]

I think I've managed to stick just about anything that can be stuck.Of course chainsaws ,trucks ,cars  myself .Put a D4 Cat so deep in a creek the fan was blowing water on me . Once even managed to nearly sink a Ferguson tractor in a pond .Some how I got them all unstuck .On a tree put the wedges in first before it rocks back on the bar .

[beenthere]

Jim
A bit unfortunate that you find yourself learning chainsaw cutting techniques that you need to know when in this difficult and dangerous situation with this downed tree. Difficult to give you safe advice while not knowing for sure your situation at hand. The cuts you have made so far will all tell the real story. 

So, get another bar and chain on site with wedges, and take your time cutting pie-shaped wedges, plunge cuts, and more chainsaw cuts while monitoring the cuts so you can withdraw the bar the split moment the cuts begin to close in on the bar. Go slowly, as staying in the cut too long results in a stuck bar which you have discovered. 

Wish you the best going forward. Take a camera along or use your phone to take pics so we can see the situation and offer better advice. All good advice given so far but interpretation does require some experience to interpret what it really means. 

[barbender]

If the saw has an inboard clutch you could remove the powerhead so that you just have a bar and chain in the log. Then get another bar and chain and you'll have an extra saw to attack the trunk with.