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Author Topic: Re: small diameter tree harvesting  (Read 12584 times)

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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2000, 05:49:52 AM »
   I take your point, but i am dying laughing at the idea of a predictable goat. Most goat owners would probably agree, the only predictable thing is that they will get into trouble somehow. I think goats have something to do with Murphy's laws.              lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2000, 02:57:19 PM »
I had one goat that took off this summer.  I figured it went off to die.  About a week later, the neighbor come over and ask if we were missing a goat.  Turns out the goat ran down to the 4 lane, and was living under the bridge.  It was grazing along the sides of the road, unfazed by the passing traffic.  Real predictable.

Every night when I come home from work, I would do a head count.  The only way to tell whether a goat is missing.  The young ones would get their heads stuck in the fence.  They would do this daily until their horns were long enough to keep their heads inside the fence.

Also had a goat get stuck in a tree!
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2000, 03:29:07 PM »
   They are also very good at figuring out how to open most gates. And they do love to get into the garden- with an ability to snatch plants even as they are being led back out.   lw
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2000, 04:02:57 PM »
It sounds like the goats are harder to control and manage than prescribed fire. I guess mechanical harvesting of the small diameter trees is the most predictable method.
~Ron

Jeff

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2000, 04:23:22 PM »
also, managing the small trees does not traumatize you when you are twelve years old by jumping off the back of a dog house (goat house) and hanging themselves when you are supposed to be taking care of them for a neighbor!

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2000, 05:45:39 PM »
   yes, but (rotflmao) small trees can contribute to childhood trauma- like the time I was up in one and the branch broke and I fell on top of my sister..                lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Jeff

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2000, 05:54:03 PM »
Well you have a better story then my older sisters! (<Plural) They use the standard decriptive explantation of thier brother: "We dropped him on his head when he was a baby, that's why he is the way he is" I have 4 sisters and no brothers and they used to tell everybody that. Still do.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2000, 11:14:23 AM »
Back to the Maine referendum on clearcutting. It has been decisively defeated, but will probably surface again. I'm told that the Sierra Club had backed the campaign with $200,000.
~Ron

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2000, 06:13:48 PM »
   I hope this time it will be written more concisely and presented by the writers before all the special-interest groups get a chance to put their own spin on it. There was a grain of truth in each ad on both sides. It is a complex issue. If they will only take into account the justifiable criticisms and pointing out of the measure's shortcoings in drafting the next version, they might have a chance of passing it.
                               LW
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Forester Frank

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2000, 02:30:00 PM »
My this topic got twisted quite a bit. Sorry I have been absent for a while, but promise to continue checking back regularly.

Okay. Here we go.

Maine and their clear-cut issue:
I'm glad it did not pass and I feel that the public is voting/infringing on private property rights. Update from L. Wakefield may prove differently.

Small Diameter tree harvest. Works well for removing suppressed and intermediate trees in hardwood pole stands and pine plantations. Tree-length skidding can work if the stand is marked properly with good skid trails. As always, the outcome depends on the logger's ability and attention to detail.

Fire: L. Wakefield and others, you may enjoy a story about author xxxxxx Mclain. as a young man Mclain worked as a firefighter out west, and wrote about his adventures. Published with "A River Runs Through It" and other stories. Good book and stories. Check Amazon.com

What else. Oh yes. Goats: All I know is I love goat cheese and that's all I can add.
Forester Frank

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2000, 09:48:50 AM »
   Just back from a road trip to WV..is there a way to recognize a pine ecosystem vs a hardwood ecosystem?- I mean..I could figure it out if the trees are already there and doing well- but what if there was previously a mix of species and then much was cut in a non-discriminating way so that just scraggly stuff is left around to give a hint-would you take a 'giant step' back and look at the surrounding (undisturbed) forestland (should there perchance to be any..)?
  I had initially been taught that one or the other of these ecosystems might be the 'climax' forest, but your use of the terms implies that possibly there is something about climate or topography which will favor one or the other, making it the desirable type to re-plant or to encourage.
 The closest analogy I can think of is the area on my place in WV where it seems logical to put an orchard- ie there is already wild cherry, plum, and one old apple tree growing there. To me that is a sign that fruit-type species are naturally favored in that particular spot- probably by a combination of the lay of the land (it faces south and a bit east) and by prevailing winds and elevation.
  I am familiar with 'pine barrens', and my concept of that in general terms is of a rather poor, sandy soil which would probably require considerable amendment to nurtue hardwoods.
  If you could by any chance outline some general characteristics that would aid in distinguishing the 2 ecosystems (or others), it might help me along here. Thanx in advance. Louise W
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2000, 06:12:10 PM »
The more one knows of the area's landscape ecosystem components the better one can interpret whether it is a hardwood or pine ecosystem. To start, I would review the published soil survey and its interpretations completed by the Natural Resource Conservation Agency (SCS) for your particular area. Landcape ecosystem components are combinations of geologic, vegetative (both overstory and ground flora), soil, hydrologic, and substatum features. Climate, landform, and soil all profoundly influence the plants and animals that inhabit a particular landscape.
A good contact for you to obtain information for your Forest Management in West Virginia would be the Northeastern Area, State & Private Forestry, Morgantown Field Office, Contact: Arlyn Perkey; USDA Forest Service; 180 Canfield Street; Morgantown, WV 26505; (304) 285-1592 or through the USDA-Forest Service web page.

                                               
~Ron

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2000, 03:19:45 PM »
The ecosystem will change over time.  It depends where you are in the entire scheme of things and where you are located.

Pioneer species are trees that are intolerant to shade, and are generally fast growing.  Aspen, eastern red cedar are pretty common in overgrown fields.  

Then the intermediate tolerant species will come on line next.  Oaks, hickory, and the like.  

Finally, the shade tolerant species will dominate.  These are primarily sugar maple, white oak, beech and hemlock.

There can be pine mixed in a hardwood ecosystem as well as hardwoods mixed in a pine ecosystem.  Whichever is the predominant type of tree present would indicate the type of ecosystem.  

Ecosystems can be converted and manipulated.  That is primarily what foresters do.  If you want to grow pine, then hardwoods have to be weeded out.  If you want to grow black cherry, then certain conditions must be present to establish the forest.  What you have now is not what you have to end up with.  To change means investment of time and/or money.  Climate and soils will dictate which type of ecosystems will thrive and which are doomed.  

Your area that has fruit trees already present probably was an orchard at one time.  Land use has changed quite a bit in any area in the past 100 yrs.  Areas that were farms are now forests.
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Online Jeff

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2000, 03:24:17 PM »
or casinos...
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Online Jeff

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2000, 06:36:21 PM »
This post did not deserve it's own thread, nor does it belong in here, other then the fact that this is the thread which I most noticed the "DASTERDLY SMILY BUG ;x " That big toothed ugly smily turning and tearing up in the most awkward and inappropriate places. Well I smashed him! I think he is gone.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Ezekiel 22:30

Tree_Farmer

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2001, 02:18:47 PM »
Ron says that hard maple requires clear cuts for regeneration.Silvics of North America says that hard maple needs about 60% shade for seedling survival.  I dont want to play gotcha here but maybe you could comment on the apparent contrdiction.

Effja Rokawba

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2001, 02:27:37 PM »
Good point!

Here's your quote Woodtick
**************************
Climax forests generally consist of beech, hemlock, maple, and white oak.  The money trees are generally red oak, ash, black cherry and hard maple.  In order to get these species to grow, stands have to be clearcut in order to make conditions favorable for them to grow.

***************************

SoWASSUP?

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: small diameter tree harvesting
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2001, 03:55:59 PM »
Sure.  The more intolerant the species, the more sunlight that has to reach the forest floor.  The money trees, especially black cherry requires more sunlight, and needs the clearcuts to regenerate.

But, a seed source must be present before clearcutting, if you are going to use natural regeneration.  That usually means either a shelterwood or seed tree cut.  

Shelterwood would be used on the heavier seeded species, and seed tree for the lighter seeded species.

After a stand is regenerated, then the overstory should be removed to allow the next forest to grow.  Otherwise you get 60 yr old, 8" trees.  Try to release them, and you won't have very good response.

Besides, I wasn't referring to hard maple as one of the money trees, although current markets make me a liar.;D
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.


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