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Author Topic: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill  (Read 3241 times)

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Offline woodbowl

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Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« on: September 02, 2005, 12:46:23 AM »
Remember the advertisments several years ago of two edger blades running ahead of the band blade? What ever happened? It looked like a good setup but I never saw any more of it. Does anyone know the mfg of this add on and how well it works? Does anyone have a simular set up? What are the pro's and con's?
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline Furby

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 02:02:49 AM »
Never saw any ads for it, but EZ was talking about trying it in this thread:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=9375.0

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 06:05:41 AM »
I'm running one on a circle mill.  You have zero tolerance for any movement in your blade.  If the blade cuts in, your edging slabs stay on the board.  If the blade runs out, you leave a mark on the next board face.  Tolerances on a band mill would be even tighter.

The other problem we have is pieces getting thrown by the vertical edger.  I don't know if it would be as much of a problem on a bandmill.  But, it is a serious safety problem on circle mills.

Then, there's the sawdust.  Ours falls down, and gets thrown forward.  Not much of a problem, if you know how to correct it.  But, we also have a pretty big shield.  Not sure how that would translate to a bandmill.
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Offline woodbowl

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 10:16:05 AM »
Thanks Furby for the thread. This moves me to the next phase of this subject.
I'm running one on a circle mill. You have zero tolerance for any movement in your blade. If the blade cuts in, your edging slabs stay on the board. If the blade runs out, you leave a mark on the next board face. Tolerances on a band mill would be even tighter.


  Thanks Ron,  zero tollerance is a problem. I now remember hearing that it was the biggest problem in this application. A bandmill has enough tolerance problems without arrangeing the geometrical meeting points.  Now........................I appeal to all that are reading this thread to help untangle, yet another one of my hair brained ideas. This one will actually work with the proper settings, clever mechanical devices and the help of my ff friends.  We all know the potential for the blade to wander thus thwarting these critical meeting points. I've always seen the edger configured ahead of the band. If it were positioned behind the blade, spring loaded as to float within a certain range and down pressure applied, the riving knife could prohibute further depression, resulting in the exact meeting point, no matter how the band may wander. (within the set range) The weight of the edger alone, without a spring may be enough to follow true course as determined by the guide of the riving knife.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 10:56:56 AM »
So, how practical is it that you have to absolutely edge on your headrig?  I think you have several problems.  One is sawdust.  When using the edge of a saw, your sawdust takes on different properties.

The other is safety.  You would need some sort of anti kickback device that would be 100%.  With my vertical edger, I have put edger strips through walls. 

I would think it would be more cost effective to use a regular edger, especially if you are working in a stationary situation. The technology is already developed.
 
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2005, 11:12:09 AM »
If the band is wandering, why would you want to incorporate other mechanical devices that are guided away from a true cut?  Ron can confirm, that when using our vertical edgers, they sometimes are our first clue to whether our saws have started to lead in or out of a cut due to the effects he mentioned. Boards hanging together, or log being scored. The LAST thing we would consider doing at that point is figure out a way for our edgers to follow the miscutting blade.
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Offline woodbowl

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2005, 11:36:19 AM »
Your right Ron, I have an eye level, cantilevered head WMlt40. It may not be as practical on this model. The concept, is the new hurdle that I wish to understand. I forgot to mention that the riving knife does not necessarly have to be a riving knife, just a depth gauge of some sort that rides under the board being cut and between the band and the edger blade with some spring loaded down pressure as to position the edger blade in respect to the blade.
If the band is wandering, why would you want to incorporate other mechanical devices that are guided away from a true cut?  Ron can confirm, that when using our vertical edgers, they sometimes are our first clue to whether our saws have started to lead in or out of a cut due to the effects he mentioned. Boards hanging together, or log being scored. The LAST thing we would consider doing at that point is figure out a way for our edgers to follow the miscutting blade.
  One would hope that the band would not wander, but of course it will. I am also wondering if another guide could be positioned behind the blade  to assist in locating a mean avarage area simular to how the draft on a tractor works. To fit all this into a range of 1/8" kerf usings close coupled moments seems workable. Also, a quick adjustment wheel to feather sudden problems may could be incorporated. I realize that there are no absolutes. I am counting on the 1/8" kerf working in unison with a mechanism to average out the tracking to overcome the largest percentage of these obstacles.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline leweee

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2005, 12:01:20 PM »
woodbowl.... remember the KISS principle.....no reinventing the wheel....this ain't NASA....the right tool for the job ...etc.

Jeff & Ron have hit on the main reasons why Woodmizer builds a seperate edger

This is just my $.02 cents Canadian
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Offline woodbowl

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2005, 09:02:41 PM »
 :D :D :D :D :D
.....no reinventing the wheel....this ain't NASA....
Now that's the truth! It's probably a good thing that NASA doesn't saw wood.  :D :D :D  When was the wheel invented? It was so long ago that no one really knows, yet it is still being improved on today. Improving is what I'm talking about. Band blades are going to wander. Circle blades are going to wander. When I consider the term "wander", exceeding + or - 1/16" still seems like a lot. When that type of band blade shows itself, it needs to come off right away.  What better reason could there possibly be to follow this unfortunate miscut? The fibers release the boards and hopefully there is not a score on the next board to be cut. Swingblades leave other marks as well. It's not an issue usually. As for knowing whether or not your being guided away from a true cut, returning is the indicator of blade location. Things are a bit different for me as I custom saw at the customers location.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 09:13:37 PM »
Well, in all my years of sawing a cicle saw only wandered long enough for me to fix it. Pet peave is people that will continue to saw even when the lumber is coming out screwed. If I would see one board hang together or edger marks left on a face, I was figureing out what was up and fixing it PRONTO.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2005, 09:17:18 PM »
 From a practical side, I would rather have a "drag-back" assembly on my mill and get the flitch off of the mill for someone else to handle than have 2 or 3 pieces of wood from an edger sitting on top of cant that must be manually removed.

If you are talking about edgers then you can't compare that with edging on the mill.  Edging on the mill is a way to keep from having to transport extra pieces of equipment.   As long as you are going to edge, Do it off line.
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Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2005, 11:53:57 PM »
The only problem I see with the stand-alone portable edgers is that I doubt that any of them will cut a 16 ft board straight to within a 1/4 inch.

Offline Percy

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Re: Circle saw edger mounted on to a portable band mill
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2005, 09:55:36 AM »
The only problem I see with the stand-alone portable edgers is that I doubt that any of them will cut a 16 ft board straight to within a 1/4 inch.

Hmmm...I have a WM edger , gas, year 2000 and it does better that the specs you just mentioned. In fact, if the cut isnt spot on, you have a serious problem. The boards can "curve" but this is usually from tension in the wood and the boards would curve on a setup described above as well. A properly set up/maintained edger is very accurate from my experience anyways ;D
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