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Author Topic: 4 stroke chainsaws?  (Read 43469 times)

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Offline Deadwood

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4 stroke chainsaws?
« on: October 29, 2005, 02:10:16 AM »
Does anyone know if there is any 4 stroke chainsaws on the market?

Despite having a career that is depends solely on the two stroke engine (Railroading and EMD Locomotives), over the past few years I have been deliberatly getting away from the two stroke engine. The powerband is the biggest reason and recently I made two purchases that were 4 stroke, while just a few years ago you could not buy anything but two strokes.

The latest was my new snowmobile. Obviously that has been dominated by 2 stroke engines. The other surprising one though was my weedwacker. That is so tiny, tiny but that is also a 4 stroke now. This just leaves my chainsaw in the 2 stroke category. I would upgrade that to a 4 stroke as well if there was a manufacturer that offered such a saw. So does anyone know...

If any major saw manufacturer plans on making a 4 stroke saw?
If there is any 4 stroke saws out there now?
If emissions regulations are going to force manufactuerers to make them?
If they are out there, if they are any good? Powew Band? Weight? Etc?

I am not trying to be funny here either. I have never heard any information about 4 stroke chainsaws.

Offline Rockn H

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2005, 02:41:35 AM »
Now I'm curious.  I don't think I was aware of any weedeaters being four stroke yet. ::)  Of course 4-stroke out board boat motors are what everyone here is going to.  They are so quiet and really fuel efficient compared to the 2-strokes.  I would like to find out about chainsaws myself.  Of course I didn't know about the weedeaters so I'm not much help. :D

Offline iain

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2005, 03:03:55 AM »
Four stroke


i cant help thinking water cooled

and stick shift or auto

sorry im not much help here



  iain

Offline Deadwood

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2005, 03:31:45 AM »
Yeah guys no kidding. I have a Ryobie Weedwacker, something like 50 cc's. The killer part is that it is the best weedwacker I ever had. You want to talk about powerful. Man what a powerband. For it small size, it really gets after the brush and does not die out at all. The only problem I have found is with fuel storage. Because the float is so small on the weedwacker, twice I have had to clean a tiny droplet of water out of the carb. It's no big deal, but then again I am handy with such mechanics. I know fuel consumption with a weedwacker is not anything of concern, but a pint and a half of fuel allowed me to weedwack my whole lawn all summer. Of course there could be mnay variables such as lawn size and whatnot, but I will say this. It was very impressive when it came to fuel economy.

Now as for the 4 stroke snowmobile. It seems as if Yamaha, a sled maker that has rewally embraced the 4 stroke snowmobile market, is doing well this year. Sales are huge. The funny thing is, their 4 strokes are turning higher rpms then the two strokes. Their redlines are higher too. In the sled world, 5000 miles is about all you can get out of a motor before rebuild. The Yamie dealer told me to check the motor at 14,000 miles. The valves are supposed to be adjusted at 26,000 miles. By that point the rest of the sled will be wiped out. This longevity is why I bought the 4 stroke. I put on 3240 miles last year so mileage is huge to me. Add to that gas savings of 20 mpg vs 12 mpg and you can see why 4 stroke is looking good.

Anyway, all this makes me wonder if there is a 4 stroke saw out there? I know weight would be just as much of a concern with a saw as it would with a snowmobile. The latter machine is still struggling with weight as the 4 strokes are heavier than the two strokes. As I said though, it would be interesting to see if anyone is heading towards a 4 stroke saw, or better yet, producing one now.

Offline Rockn H

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2005, 03:39:46 AM »
The 4-stroke jet skies and out boards really have the 2-strokes beat hands down.  If that Ryobi has a 50cc engine that in a chain saw chassis should handle a 18" bar pretty easy shouldn't it?  I just don't know if your german manufacturers will be very quick to go 4-stroke.  Then again I saw where Briggs was offering bars and chain on their corp. web site. ???

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2005, 04:28:45 AM »
There are no 4 stroke saws on the market yet but I would really like to try one. Shindaiwa has developed some prototypes with their C-4 hybrid technology, 4 strokes that use mixed fuel, but will not introduce them until forced to by emission regs. A Shindaiwa rep told me he had run an 80cc version in Japan and that he could not stall it. The torque and throttle response were amazing. It was very smooth too.
There are a number of such trimmers out there. Honda has a true four stroke with a dry sump and others like Husky use their engine. Stihl has 4-mix which, like Shindaiwa's C-4, is a hybrid.
Briggs has bars and chains because they have recently taken over distribution of Dolmar in North America.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Ironwood

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 07:30:10 AM »
Good for you, I do hate the fumes from all 2 cycles. BREATHE EASY BRO.

                     REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Kirk_Allen

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2005, 08:26:37 AM »
I have a Stihl 4 stroke weed wacker but it too requires fuel/oil mix.  It runs 100 RPM faster than the 2 stroke version and seems to have quite a bit more power. 


Offline JimBuis

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2005, 08:45:27 AM »
You can read about Dolmar's plan for a 4 stroke chainsaw at this link:
small links are the best links

The article is a little on the technical side.  It sounds like the production of a 4 stroke chainsaw is due anytime now.
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

Offline twostroke_blood

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2005, 10:01:42 AM »
AS for me. I'll stick with my TWO STROKE's billowing clouds of 20:1 mix.

Offline floyd

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2005, 12:08:15 PM »
iaian, think vw...aircooled

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2005, 06:01:20 PM »
My 066 runs at 15800rpms I don't think they can get a 4 stroke to run that fast if they can even make one comparable in weight. I think theres a big saftey issue if a saw won't run fast enough to cut off a tree.If they do come out with something they'll have to prove it to me. Nothing like 2 stroke smoke to keep the bugs away.

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2005, 06:27:53 PM »
chainspeed is the end result you are after.... 

if a 4 stroke is light enough, you can put a gear box on it, but that's more moving parts.

my brother has a 4 stroke dirt bike, it's pretty quick, but they may do funky things with it's gear box too...

getting 4 strokes to rev high takes a good balance and a short stroke, if the inertia is low enough, you can probably spin one to 13000rpm.

You have a modded saw to make it turn 15k?  I think the 066 was rated at either 12.5k or 13k from the factory.
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lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2005, 06:59:11 PM »
Chain speed can also be modified by using different size drive sprockets. Just because my 2 stroke 372XP works well with an 8 pin sprocket, doesn't mean that I'm required to use that same 8 pin sprocket on a 4 stroke saw turning 2500 rpm's less. As long as the motor has the torque, you can bump up the sprocket size to achieve the desired chain speed.

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2005, 07:30:20 PM »
actually, you'll need more torque for a larger sprocket to keep the same chainspeed in a cut. 

I didn't mention the sprocket, because I have no idea of the RPM difference.  if it's half the RPM, then that would require a much larger sprocket, and then you may have problems keeping the chain in the rail. if you use a regular bar designed for a smaller sprocket.

I guess I'm saying that we're gonna have to wait and see what they do.  I used a 4 stroke weedeater, and it basically sucks, worse "tool" I've ever attempted to use, but I'm sure it was a very low end model too....
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2005, 08:48:11 PM »
My 066 has been played with. I think factory max rpm is 13500. I have a 044 that runs faster than that :o But you guys are hitting on exactly what i'm trying to get at. Someone is gonna have to play around with 4 stroke moters sprockets and maybe wider bars to fit larger sprockets or gear boxes and make it all come togeather at a weight you can carry around in the woods and then make it relaiable. This ain't gonna happen overnight. It's gonna take years of trial and error.
 What I would really like to know is it going to make that much of a differance in the amount of emmisions on such small engines Verses just leaving things alone. I think they could make more differance if they did something about all the jet fuel going through the planes in the sky!!

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2005, 08:55:01 PM »
SF'ish,
Don't go off trying to be logical. Don't you know by now that when it comes to government, logic does not apply. The only thing that matters is that you follow the rules. If you attempt to apply logic, you will confuse and/or irritate the government employee trying to make you compliant. And that never leads to anything good.

The rules are that small gasoline engines must reduce emissions by X percent within the given timetable. That's the rules, don't go trying to re-negotiate using logic.  ::)

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2005, 09:06:43 PM »
Ohh well just forget I said that I wouldn't want any gov guys in black suits showing up at my door ;D

Offline Frickman

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 02:38:06 PM »
Stihl's 4-stroke weed trimmer is extremely powerful, with incredible torque. I don't own one, but have friends in the lawn care business that have let me try one. They said that they are more expensive than a 2-stroke, but pay for themselves over time. I too haven't seen a 4-stroke saw, but I'm sure many companies are working on one.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

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Pretend farmer when I have the time

Offline Deadwood

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Re: 4 stroke chainsaws?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2005, 07:23:19 PM »
I don't think engine RPM is going to be a problem. Currently my 4 stroke snowmobile engine turns 600 rpm faster than my friends Ski Doo 2 stroke engine...and mine has a few more horsepower to boot (120 vs 107). The redline on my machine is also higher at 10,000 RPM while his is at 9400. How they got these small engines to crank so high is beyond me, but since the valves are due to be adjusted at 26,000 miles and a 2 stroke engine is junk at 8,000 miles, I think longevity is where the 4 stroke versus the 2 stroke chainsaw will really pay us dividends.

As for the emissions, we do get a side benefit to them. A lot less fuel consumption. My old snowmobile got 12 miles to the gallon, this sled will get 20. At 3.15 a gallon like it was a few weeks ago, it doesn't matter if the fuel tank capacity is measured in gallons or pints!

Personally I can't wait for a 4 stroke chainsaw to debute. I be at the shop door waiting for it to open on the first day of sales.


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