Five hundred years (speculation)

ARKANSAWYER · November 21, 2005, 12:02:03 PM

Trees breath CO2 and spit out O2 and use the carbon to grow. We are the CO2 source that allows most things to grow. The fires produced CO2 as well as ash and relesed nitrogen into the soil. If we all left for 500 years the trees would not grow very fast for it would take many years for the animual population to grow to a point that it could make CO2.
In these parts the land was pretty well stripped of timber in the 1920's and I have seen photos of the stump fields. About 50 stumps to the acre. the forest have come back to some standards but there are 125 trees per acre or more now. In 500 years the stands would be pretty much like the early white men found them. In better shape would be hard to say. Here the red oak borer has killed many acres of oaks because the Forestry Service has spent the last 50 years keeping fires from burning. Now they say that axe and fire are very good tools in proper forest managent.
Next ice age must be a long ways off as it seems to me to be getting warmer.

Jeff · November 21, 2005, 12:59:07 PM

My post wasn't a prediction of an ice age by any means. It was meant as a statement that Mother Nature, AKA, God are the ultimate decision makers on what happens 500 years from now. Try as we may to influence that, a natural event born of the earth or the heavens is thee deciding factor.

Modat22 · November 21, 2005, 01:06:31 PM

I think if the forests where unmanaged for 500 years they'd adapt to something like a rain forest minus the high humidity.

*Shrugs* just a thought.

Ianab · November 21, 2005, 02:05:07 PM

QuoteI think if the forests where unmanaged for 500 years they'd adapt to something like a rain forest minus the high humidity.

In the right circumstances they can. NZ forests are fairly unique like that, high rainfall, low fire risk, no grazing animals means a very interesting temperate rain forest. The humidity is there, just not the temperature. Mixed hardwood and softwood, some very long lived trees, and tree types dependant on location, altitude and soil type. Most of NZ's remaining native forests have been changed little by human intervention (that cant be said for country in general) and they seem very different places to your normal american forests.

There are many other factors that influence a forests growth apart from just humans, basic climate, grazing animals, natural forest fires etc.

Ian

SwampDonkey · November 21, 2005, 04:19:09 PM

Quote from: ely on November 21, 2005, 10:36:00 AM
riles, during that timeframe, i think the bison that were present were probably the woods bison as opposed to the american bison. i am no expert by any means but i understand that an explorer once wrote a book about his travels about that time and made mention of the wood bison that inhabited what is now arkansas and several other states in the area. seems it was similar in appearance but smaller in size to the american bison.

with the plethora of knowledge here would anyone have a copy of the book/journal penned by the explorer Frederick Gerstacker (sp)

The woods bison is 1/3 larger than the plains bison. And 1/3 of bulls measured under management are over 2000 lbs, where it is rare to find a plains bison 2000 lbs. The wood bison were only native to Canada in the Aspen woodlands.

Historic Range and Differences in Bison

;)

Riles · November 22, 2005, 06:34:04 AM

OK, Snow snakes and Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus I'll buy, but just because you have a link doesn't mean the mythical woods bison really exists! :D

SwampDonkey · November 22, 2005, 07:10:22 AM

Well, I guess you need to head up to Elk Island (plains bison) and Wood Buffalo (wood bison) for an education. ;D :D ;) If the folks that manage those beasts don't know, then I guess no one does. ;D That's my aswer and i'm stickin to it. :D :D :D :D

ely · November 22, 2005, 10:18:55 AM

thanks for the info it is very interesting. but the book i nmentioned places the wood bison from the east coast all the way to arkansas in the 1700's. really wish i could read it over.

SwampDonkey · November 22, 2005, 03:01:11 PM

One has to look at this from another perspective as well. The gene pool is vastly reduced within both the woods and plains bison. Whose to say that 200 years ago there weren't alot of 2000 lb plains bison. The records that have been kept on these Canadian reserves are on small hurds of animals (comparitively) in a 50 year period. But, like most wild animals, they were probably larger in the north. The Alaskan moose is larger than our moose and the white-tail deer is bigger up here than in Virginia. Also, through genetic testing both bison are distinct subspecies. Also, depending on who wrote the journal during those early expiditions and the details of their accounts you might by talking about the same subspecies (plains bison). They might have been larger in one region than the other. Are there detailed drawings and descriptions? Lots of things can be left to speculation. They have been managing bison for over 100 years and started out on ranches. Then they discovered TB in them and blamed the bison for having it, when it was brought by cattle. Heck my grandfathr caught TB from a DanG old cow. From what I've seen on the several websites about American bison, it's a general term to name both subspecies. Doesn't take much to research it on the web and compare the two animals though.

Plains Bison Bison bison bison and Wood Bison Bison bison athabascae <-- The Athabasca is a northern Canada river. Anyway, I'm sticking with genetics and other science. ;D

Jeff · November 22, 2005, 03:58:11 PM

We had an incident here yesterday on the road we used to live on. A Bison was running all over, taking down fences and letting horses out and stuff. Two boys got video of it and it was on the news last night. They ended up putting it down. I guess there are two more in the wild here as yet. I will see if I can find something on-line about it.

SwampDonkey · November 22, 2005, 04:13:32 PM

It's sad that the remnants of a vast herd of animals are reduced to living in parks, zoos and other managed captivity. But, on the flip side...I sure wouldn't want one charging my truck at night. But, I'm not sure that they would though, any worst than a moose. :

Jeff, alot of those captive bison are cross bread with cattle and you can't tell the difference in them. Be interesting to read up on where the thing escaped from and to see the video.

Jeff · November 22, 2005, 04:24:26 PM

We have several bison farms in lower michigan. THis one was a biggie and they said full blooded. Thats why they put it down. I guess there is no catching them.

There are some beef-allo ranches around as well.

SwampDonkey · November 22, 2005, 04:43:56 PM

Some day I'm gonna try some of the meet. I know it's availabe here in some shops. Who knows, it might taste better than pure beef, I know its leaner. Trouble is I bet it's expensive. Funny how they mark stuff up if it's 'better' for ya. :

I did manage to see for my self some live plains bison out side of Edmonton in Elk Island Park. I only drove by them, didn't go into the park. They're a magnificant animal in my opinion. The ones I seen up close were very docile and quiet. Just eating along in the grass like cattle. I wouldn't want to be standing up next to one though. :D :D

sniff, snort, paw, paw :D

ARKANSAWYER · November 22, 2005, 10:40:29 PM

When I was up at Fort Greely AK there was a herd of wild buffalo that roamed around. They pretty much had free range of post and alot of land around Delta Junction. When they would come throught the middle of post they would leave green slippery rocks laying every where.

Faron · November 23, 2005, 05:57:51 AM

Swampdonkey, I tried a buffalo burger a couple weekends ago. Pretty good, maybe just a little leaner than a beef burger, but not much different in taste. After eating I didn't notice any tendency to paw the ground and beller or anything, as one of my table companions predicted. Well, no more tendency than usual, I should say. :D

crtreedude · November 23, 2005, 06:50:25 AM

Most of the beef here is leaner - no grain is fed most cattle. They don't age the beef either, so when you first get it - you usually want it to stay in the refrigerator for a couple of days to "soften up" otherwise your teeth will bounce.

I actually like it better than the grain fed - but not everyone agrees. The pork is really good though and of course the free-range chickens are wonderful.

Again I point out - we have wandered into food again...

do ya think we like food?!?! :

SwampDonkey · November 23, 2005, 08:01:53 AM

Food? It's the biggest part of our lives. ;D

etat · November 23, 2005, 09:17:00 AM

Seeing as how one of my neighbors who 'usually' runs a beef cattle feeder operation got the bright idea to import a small herd of buffalo a few years ago and feed them out and said buffalo decided to run right through his fence and run wild and nobody could catch them and none of the fences around here could hold them and they came around and told anybody that could to 'shoot' them to keep them from causing a car wreck or hurting somebody and considering the fact that one evening one of them was in my Yard for a while before it broke for the woods where we initiated a hunt and wound up with me having the pleasure of skinning it out and cutting it up and dividing it amongst all of us that was hunting it I would say that I have definitely had the pleasure of eating buffalo meat.........

whew.......that was a looooong sentence!!!!

crtreedude · November 23, 2005, 09:27:58 AM

Interesting thing about fences - I had this thought of getting a Water buffalo for the fince - they are really strong and provide the best milk for mozzarala cheese. Well, as usual, they guys explained to the Gringo why this isn't a good idea.

It seems that a Water Buffalo just thinks fences are silly. Doesn't even care if they are there. Sorry, I need my fences in one piece for a while longer.

etat · November 23, 2005, 09:34:04 AM

Code Select

It seems that a Water Buffalo just thinks fences are silly. Doesn't even care if they are there.

actually, I've got the same problem with a ex Bull that is now a Steer who is now in a breakout proof bull pen, temproarily.........

(see redneck thread)

crtreedude · November 23, 2005, 09:49:05 AM

Yeah, we had a very large bull with that basic attitude once too - he ain't around anymore.

SwampDonkey · November 23, 2005, 11:04:31 AM

CK, how did ya like the meat. If I lived up there near Edmonton, I'de be getting myself some for sure. Thing about this part of the world (NB) nobody is interested in trying something new. :

I'll find some eventually. ;D

submarinesailor · November 23, 2005, 05:27:47 PM

My best buddy's wife's uncle Roscoe had a bull at loved it in the corn field. No fence would keep him out, not even an electric fence. Finally the old boy got tried of running the bull out and fixing the fence. He pulled 220 right off the pole using telephone pole guy wire. When the bull hit that "new hopped up" fence. Well, all I can say is flash, pop and he was sitting on the ground shaking his head. I know part of the story is true because I saw the scar on the bull's chest. After that shocking experience, that bull wouldn't walk through a gate if it had a spider web across it. And old Roscoe could lead that bull around with a piece of twine.