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Author Topic: Hidden Danger  (Read 9165 times)

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Offline rebocardo

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2006, 07:49:29 PM »
> I have seen many truckers standing at the pumps with a cigarette and thats pretty scary

Not that scary since it is diesel and does not produce explosive vapors like gasoline does. Not that it is a smart thing to do. Diesel soaked clothes can light up easy enough.

 

Offline wiam

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2006, 09:11:30 PM »
I have seen a National arson investigator put out a cigarette in a glass of gas.  When someone in the seminar said that it was because he put the cigarette in quickly he did another very slowly.  The flash point of gas is way higher than the temp of a cigarette.

Will

Offline UNCLEBUCK

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2006, 12:09:38 AM »
I stand corrected about diesel fumes swirling out of a diesel tank at a high rate   :).  Why was I told by welders here on the forum that diesel tanks are more explosive than gas when I was making a homemade wood boiler ?  I use diesel to light my fishhouse stove and other stoves because if it was gas I used I would be dead but why is a fuel oil tank "diesel" considered more dangerous to weld than a gas?

I am just wanting to know about welding barrels more safely and that is all  :)
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Offline DanG

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2006, 11:06:41 AM »
Don't know for sure, UB, but it might be because the diesel fuel leaves more residue inside the barrel than gasoline would.  Dip a nail in some gas, and another in some diesel fuel, then look at them the next day.  It ain't hard to tell which is which.  Diesel just doesn't evaporate as quickly or as completely.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2006, 06:10:06 PM »
Just wanted to make note that alot of the well run filling stations around keep an eye on folks trying to fill gas jugs on the tail gate of the pickup. You'll usually here a voice over the intercom telling you to put the jug on the ground before filling. Forestry supervisors will also warn you about it as well. ;)
Move'n on.

Offline Ianab

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2006, 06:58:30 PM »
I think the danger with filling on / in the vehicle is that the whole vehicle may be holding a static charge that could cause a spark + the vapour that overflows the can as you fill it. It's not actually LIKELY to catch fire... but it COULD. Then you have a plastic can of burning petrol, in the back of a pickup full of petrol, sitting in a gas station... also full of petrol.  :o

By placing the can on the ground you remove the charge that the vehicle could hold. The gas can by itself isn't big enough to carry enough charge to cause ignition. Even if pumping the fuel generates static the can isn't big enough to build up a dangerous spark.

The diesel tank welding would be hairy though. The heavier diesel would be SURE to leave a residue inside the tank, even more so than petrol. It's harmless at normal temps but once you heat it with a welding torch it's going to vapourise some of it and become flammable.

Cheers

Ian
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Offline Furby

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2006, 10:42:45 PM »
Saw a fellow at the gas station just yesterday filling not one but two plastic tanks in the back of his SUV. ::) ::)

Offline woodbowl

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2006, 10:50:31 PM »
That was probably me again Furb.  ::) ::)
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2006, 11:00:18 PM »
I've got a 100 gallon diesel tank from TSC that sprung a leak where the mounting tab is attached at the bottom.  A local welding shop welded it up with an inch or so of deisel still in it  :o  I just stopped to see if they could/would fix it and I was going to leave it with them if they could figuring they'd want to flush it out or something.  They welded it right then.  I waited outside at a distance  ;) ;D.  Cost twenty five bucks.  Lots cheaper than a new tank  8) 8)   
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline DanG

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2006, 01:22:24 AM »
Betcha they woodna done that if it had been empty.  The liquid in the tank absorbs the heat long before it gets to any oxygen to enable combustion.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline Raphael

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2006, 10:14:35 AM »
  Like using a cutting torch to get the hanging straps off a car's gas tank.  Got half a tank of gas in it then it's not a problem but if it's empty BOOM!!!
  Of course more often than not you're pulling these things because of a leak so the torch option goes away, and I hope nobody is dumb enough to use a torch on the straps of a plastic gas tank.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2006, 11:30:36 AM »
So answer me this - how come the gas cans don't go boom when you put them back in the bed, sloshing the gas around inside and sliding them over the liner?

Sounds like a topic for Mythbusters . . .
One With Wood
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2006, 07:08:31 PM »
Maybe 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 it wont catch fire....

But if a million people do it, one poor schmuck is gonna luck out. :D

Ian
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2006, 11:07:56 PM »
There are a number of reasons for the dangers of filling gas cans.

The first reason is that any fluid flowing in a hose can build up static electricity. I believe that all fuel hoses now are required to have a grounding wire built into the hose so there can be no difference in static charge between the ends.

You can also have static charges on your body. People that work around flammable solvents are supposed to wear conductive shoes or wear a simple grounding clip and test the conductivity of their shoes every day.

Your vehicle can also carry a static charge since it is insulated from the ground by the tires.

The safest method of filling gas cans would be to place the metal safety can on the ground, attach the grounding wire from the fill point to the can, keep the nozzle in contact with the can, and only use a dead man valve, not an automatic. That is essentially what OSHA requires in the workplace.

As far as the cigarette into the glass of gas, he knew that LIQUIDS WILL NOT BURN nor explode, only vapors. Even gasoline must be vaporized and mixed with the proper amount of oxygen to burn or explode.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Hidden Danger
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2006, 12:23:10 AM »
Welding any fuel tank without following safe cleaning proceedures is like playing russian roulette with all but two chambers loaded. Regardless of any small degree of difference in diesel or gasoline it is just plain stupid.

There are three things need for combustion or an explosion. The first is fuel and leaving any in the tank is the first mistake. The second is oxygen and and you can only hope there is not enough in the tank to create a mixture that is above the LEL or lower explosive limit. The third is ignition and the weld metal will be above the 400-500 degree auto ignition temperature of either gasoline or diesel.

So either way, you are guaranteed two out of three or four out of six.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.


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