Survey of what sawmillers use for planers

[Kelvin]

Howdy All!
Just wondering what is most used by people who are making a living out of sawmilling for processing lumber.  How big, how old and how many phase?
Right now i'm trying to make do with a tiawanese 20" 5hp that will only take off about 1/16" at a time on not too wide of a board.  I've been looking on ebay for a big machine to take its place so we can get a faster feed rate, and not have to send the lumber through 4 times.

One thing i thought of is this, avoid sharpening and setting blades.  Either only buy a machine with a built in sharpener, or buy a carbide insert head.  Anyone running a carbide insert?  Anyone see a carbide insert head run?

I'm looking at old rockwells and powermatics.  Its amazing on ebay.  Everyone of them that comes up seems to come from and old highschool.  I imagine they paid $500 and now they are going for $3k on ebay.  Wish i could find a local auction that had a big one.

I don't have 3 phase so i'd have to add a phase converter of some sort if i buy a big 3 phase machine (which all of them seem to be)  I can't help but think of all the wasted energy in running a 15hp slave motor and a 10hp planer motor all could be avoided if i could just find a single phase machine with a big enough motor. 

One single phase machine that looks okay is the Grizzly 20" with a carbide inset head, 5hp on the cutter head and 2 hp on the feed.  That sounds like it would loosen up some power.  Maybe i could switch out the crappy chinese 5 hp with a nicer 71/2 hp american motor to make it really cut!

What do you guys think?

Kelvin

[woodmills1]

for the first few years I used only my Royobi 10"  talk about slow...but I still use it for a light pass because it gives a nice surface.

I also have a belsaw 12" planer moulder.  It has a 5 hp baldor single phase motor and it is surprising just how much work it will do.

But.....that grizzly 20 sure looks nice  so does the logsol 4 sider.

[bad_boards]

use a G0551 15 inch 3 hp grizzly , 3 straight knives
love it

and a 8 inch G0593 grizzly carbide insert jointer , 2hp

both are nice,cheap ,easy to work with . handles all my oscar 28 cuts

[brdmkr]

Kelvin

I have a woomaster 718, still on the pallet in storage .  My shop just isn't ready!!!!!!  I hope it will meet my needs.  However, you may want to check out irsauctions.com.  They are an industrial liquidation outfit and they tend to deal with some heavy duty machinery.  Some of it can be pretty pricey, but it still seems cheaper than ebay.

[mike_van]

Kelvin, I use an SCMI 20" x 9" - 3 phase, probably the nicest, dependable, accurate machine I own.  4 hss knives, they change out fast, there's a jig to set them with, 10 minutes I can do all four.  It weighs 1300 lbs. I've done 8x8's without thinking it was going to tip over. I bought it used [but near mint] from Carpenters in York Pa.  some  12 years ago.  I can't do 24" boards, but how many are out there anyway?  I think I paid 3000.00 back then, never regretted not getting a lesser machine.  A sawmill friend of mine runs a massive Crescent planer with a 4 cyl. gasoline engine, works for him - No 3 phase near him either.

[footer]

  I can't help but think of all the wasted energy in running a 15hp slave motor and a 10hp planer motor all could be avoided if i could just find a single phase machine with a big enough motor. 

Kelvin

Kelvin, There  isnt as much wasted energy as you would think. It realy doesn't take much energy to keep a motor spinning without a load, but I can still see your point on just getting a single phase one from the start.

[KGNC]

Don't know if applies to this discussion.
I was just surfing around and found some goverment surplus equipment, including some planers coming up at auction.
http://www.govliquidation.com/list/c7275
Looks like they have tried to destroy some nice equipment by leaving it outside but they could still be salvaged.

[Engineer]

I've gone through a bunch of planers.  Not making a living at it but I am building a house and do a bit of woodworking anyway. 

Right now I have a Woodmaster 718 I'm sorta trying to sell (and don't use), a Ridgid 13" portable planer which I really like for finish work, and a Powermatic 180 which is a 3-phase 5 hp beast.  I don't have 3-phase, I've been procrastinating about putting together a phase converter and it looks like I'm going to continue to do so.

[Kevin_H.]

We have been shopping for a new planer for a couple of weeks, We really would like to have the 15" grizzly but it seems it is always on back order.  >:(

Most all of the stuff we do is 5" or less.

Right now we are using a 13 ridgid, but have big problems with it clogging up with shavings and I think the feed rollers are worn down.

We have recently found some new 15" planers on ebay and that may be the way we go.

[Gabby]

Kelvin-Look for municipal auctions. Local,state, county. Here in New York the State is downsizing a lot of agencies (i.e.-Psych Centers). Many of these places had work programs. I have seen Grizzly. Just a thought. Call your Sate capital and ask to be put on a mailing list for these if available. Good luck.

[ex-racer]

I don't make a living at this - just sawing for my own use.

I've been using a 16" Makita 2040 for about 25 years. It works well with light (1/16") cuts. I wouldn't want to be in a hurry.

Had to repair it twice in that time. Both times the problem was associated with the feed roller drive chain.

Ed

[Larry]

How fast ya wanta go and how much money ya got?

I was gonna type a response but remembered HORSELOGGER pretty much covered everything in this old thread.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=6064.0

Couple of things I could add...parts are hard to come by for some of the old planers like the Delta wedge. 

I have been running the Byrd Shelix head for a year now and will never go back to straight knives...best money I ever spent.  Few other members are running em and think they are of the same opinion.  Advantages you may not have thought about...quiet, smaller chip size so better dust extraction with woods like basswood along with less horsepower requirement, reduced chip out, and did I mention quiet?

[Jason_WI]

I use a modified 12" RBI planer that I added variable speed feed to it. It works ok for small jobs.

I am currently setting up a Cresent 26" planer with dedicated sawdust blower. This planer is old and has Babbit bearings but it will handle the big stuff.  

The Logosol sure does look nice. I just don't think I can justify the purchace ay this time.  


Jason

[Faron]

718 Woodmaster.  Changed it over to a single twist link belt and put the motor on a hinge yesterday.  I think we are going to like the change.  Also have an old belsaw 12" that we aren't using right now.  It feeds a little too fast, and has no dust collection system.

[dad2nine]

Would be nice if Wood Mizer came out with a planer attachment for their saw mills. Think of the HP just sitting there waiting to be used, Hint Hint  . I see they have a lathe and resaw attachment, may a planer attachment is on the drawing board?

[amberwood]

Current machine is a  locally branded 15" taiwanese JET machine. 3hp single phase 240V, 3 straight HSS blades. Most of my furniture work at present is recycled hardwood...like concrete.. and I have been unable to stop it even at maximum cut depth. The limiting factor has been dust/chip extraction. I havehad to reduce feed speed or cut depth to match the extractor.

priced at about USD$1000

DTR

[solodan]

I go back and forth with my decision about planers everyday. I have been using a Ryobi 13" for the last 4 years. I don't really like it that much but I have ran thousands of feet of lumber through it. It was worth every penny, but now that it has stopped working for me I need to fiqure out what I am going to do. I came to the conclusion that I don't need a portable planer, it has never left my property. I do need a new planer in my shop though at my house. This is where I build my customers pieces at. For this I will probably get a Grizzly 15". I rarely need to plane anything bigger and if I do I treat it the same as the large slab bar tops and mantels I make. Some of these slabs are several hundred pounds and would not be fun to put through a planer. I will need another planer at my mill site that is about 1/4 mile from my house. I just aquired this 5 acre parcel on the highway, so I don't need to start processing any lumber over there just yet. I have a Lucas 827, so for this I will definately get the Logosol. I can't really justify the cost of not having it. ;D

[Raphael]

  I've got the Ridgid 13" right now and a bad habit of producing 14-20" boards ;)
  I'd probably wind up w/ the Grizzly 15" if I had to replace it anytime soon.  I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal on a 20"+ machine or a winning lottery ticket so I can get the Logosol...

Kelvin-  HP ratings can be a bit subjective,  you may find even a good 5hp Leeson motor (or equivilent) makes a significant improvement over your current model.

[highpockets]

Grizzly 20"

[jackpine]

718 Woodmaster  The 5 h.p. Leeson has plenty of power but if you don't keep the bed well waxed it will slip on the rubber feed rollers if the side up has already been planed.

[Cedarman]

Northtech 26" with helical head.  15hp main motor and a smaller feed motor. Used to have straight knives.  Did a good job, but with helical knives I go 20 times longer before rotating knives.  Also can take off 5/16 inch on a 16" board when knives are sharp.  This machine allows us to feed as fast as we can pick the boards up.  We do a tremendous amount of planing though.  Would never go back to straight knives.  Original machine new was 7 grand, new helical head was 3 grand, bargain for what it will do.

[Grawulf]

Kelvin,
I have The Grizzly 20" that you're talking about with the separate feed motor. Straight knives but would like to fit it with one of the Byrd heads one of these days. Found it on E-bay about half a year ago for a REALLY good price - nobody wanted to travel to Pennsylvania to pick it up. I'm extremely happy with it - adjustable bed rollers - no snipe. Only time I had it growl at me was when I fed some figured hard maple through - tried to take five sixteenths off in one pass   ooops.................. Has lots of power and a very smooth finish.

[woodbeard]

Right now I've got a 12" Parks.
It's a nice machine,  but I really need to get something bigger.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Started out with a grizzly 20" that now sits in a corner collecting dust. Got my hands on a Yates american B2 30"that worked real good. I loved the 15 HP power it now sits in a barn waiting for a new home. I put in a 20" oliver with a carbide spiral cutter head over a year ago and have probably put well over 100,000 bd ft through it and have not flipped over the knives yet it just keeps going and going. I'll never go back to straight knives. I pre size all my lumber before it goes to be tounge and grooved in the logosol. For the money a grizzly planner can't be beat. The logosol is another good easy machine to setup and work with. I have a mattison moulder that by the time I get it setup for a run I'll have it done with the logosol and be on the next size run or be finished. I wish the  logosol had a spiral cutter head.

[Frickman]

Older Powermatic 221, 8" x 20", three straight knives. Have only used it for sizing miscut lumber off the mill, and for some custom planing jobs. 10 hp three-phase motor with rotary phase converter. Excellent machine, but I'd like to have one of the new spiral heads. Sounds like a reason to go planer shopping.  ;) ;)

[footer]

I rarely need to plane anything bigger and if I do I treat it the same as the large slab bar tops and mantels I make. Some of these slabs are several hundred pounds and would not be fun to put through a planer.

Solodan,
How do you surface your large slabs?

[BBTom]

Sawyerfortyish,

Do you want to get rid of that old grizzly?? 

[treenail]

Been using my 20" grizzly for nearly 12 years now and have had not one bit of trouble with it.  Also have the grizzly 20" knife grinder for it to sharpen the blades, and it saves quite a few pennies. I also have a williams and hussey planer/moulder that I make flooring, mouldings, raised panels with that can be used to plane lumber up to seven inches wide with. Not a speed machine, but has paid for itself many years and has been in the family since 1964.  Use a lumbermate 2000 sawmill and the bandsaw cuts really help out the planer a lot by not having such rough cuts to plane down. If I was going to buy another planer, I'd stick with the grizzly and upgrade to the larger heavy duty models.

[pigman]

I have a 25in WoodMaster with the 7.5 hp  I use for my own woodworking and a little for others. I like the 25in for planing glueup panels. The 25in has double rubber infeed and outfeed rollers.

[Brad_S.]

I use an ancient 20" Parks, 10 hp, 3 phase. A friend in the same complex has a 24" Delta, 15 or 20 hp, 3 phase. Both are heavy machines and can hog a fair amount if needed.
I have a another friend with the Grizzly 15", and with all due respect to those of you who either have one or are looking at one, they may be fine for a home hobbyist but I think they are limiting for a full time lumberman. They can only take a 1/16th inch of material off at a time and if there is any thick or thin in a board, it will jamb it up in a heartbeat.
I suggest something heavy, so it doesn't walk, strong, so it can hog a decent amount of wood if need be, and wide. IMO, like so many other things in the sawmill arena, get at least twice the machine you think you need or you will regret your decision almost as soon as you get the planer home.

[Kelvin]

Thanks for all the responses.  Sounds like what i was thinking.  Bigger will not be regretted.  But, one idea that i keep coming up with is buying the american made 7 1/2hp motor, and getting the spiral carbide head for my current 20" Grizzly machine.  Do you think the castings that were made for a 5hp should handle the extra power? 

I've also found an older, rebuilt powermatic 20" 221 with a fairly new Byrd carbide indexable head on it for roughly $3k.  Its got a newer 10hp 3 phase which i would have to buy a phase converter for.  I would like to use this to dress all the lumber for my small sized two man sawing operation that sells figured oak and make some flooring roughed to size before it goes in the molder that i don't own yet.  Sound like an acceptable sized machine?

What do you think?  The cheaper 20" are fine for really small or hobby minded production, but i can't keep sending the stuff through 4-6x's.

Ideas?
THanks
Kelvin

[RMay]

I like the looks of the Baker planer http://www.baker-online.com/DOCUMENTS/baker_automatic_planer.htm

[solodan]

How much material do you guys need to take off to get a good surface?

1/16th on each side is plenty for me, but here we go again with the band saw vs swing blade debate ;D. I usually only make more passes to get the final thickness I need.

Solodan,
How do you surface your large slabs?

Footer,
I will most likely get a slab surface attachment for my Lucas 827 one day , but this is how I do it right now. First, the big slabs are cut with my Alaskan and the 3120. This does not leave a smooth cut, but a very true and straight cut as long as everything is set up right. Then I use a 4"x 24" belt sander with 60 grit. One or two  passes is usually enough to take down the material to where you can only see faint lines on the suface. Then I switch to the orbital w/ 60 grit to take out these lines. Then back to the belt with 120. Then I use the orbital and finish sander bumping up to a finer grit each time, and wiping in between with a tack cloth. The final sand I do by hand. I can get a mirror finish this way. It is time consuming, but makes a real nice finish. I will always take the extra few hours if the slab is gonna bring me several hundred dollars more ;D

6"x24" x 8'
Too big for the planer!

So I think I will still stick to my plan of the 15" grizzly in the shop and the Logosol for the Sawmill.

[solodan]

But now I like the looks of the Baker. :D

RMay do you know what the price of this machine is? I can't find a price on their website.

[Engineer]

I've also found an older, rebuilt powermatic 20" 221 with a fairly new Byrd carbide indexable head on it for roughly $3k.  Its got a newer 10hp 3 phase which i would have to buy a phase converter for.  I would like to use this to dress all the lumber for my small sized two man sawing operation that sells figured oak and make some flooring roughed to size before it goes in the molder that i don't own yet.  Sound like an acceptable sized machine?

That is a great machine.  A new 10hp motor and a Byrd Shelix head?  I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.   You could plane off anything you could lift.    Turn a 20" wide 4/4 board into shavings with three passes.    And smooooooth.  I'll be replacing the head in my Powermatic with a Byrd head just as soon as I can drum up the coin.  Heard so many good things about them.

[Larry]

Bigger motors are a popular upgrade and most of the time work well.  Just be aware of the pitfalls.  Your present switch is probably magnetic with thermal motor protection...may not work properly with a bigger motor...and a switch for 7-1/2 HP can be expensive.  If memory serves me correctly your Grizzley won't physically allow more than a 1/8" deep cut.  You can fool around with the knife projection and might get it to take a 3/16" bite...be safe.  A spiral cutter head won't allow you to fool with the knife projection so you will have to machine the upper casing for a deeper bite.  May take some work on the feed rollers also...especially the outfeed.

Keep a look out for the old iron.  Had this picture in my gallery of my $25 24" 3 speed Crescent that would eat a Grizzley for breakfast...course it might give OSHA a migraine.  Bought a 18" Monarch last fall that was a little more modern for $150...would have done the job for ya.  Somebody made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

Sounds like a good price on the Powermatic if in good condition but have no experience with that model.  You will be paying more for the Bryd head than the planer.  First question to ask is how many times have the inserts been rotated?  They are quite expensive, but last a long time, and can be rotated 4 times.

[woodhick]

I run a 20" import planer for years and 1/8" was about all I could crowd it.  I upgraded to a Powermatic 225 24" planer last year.  what a difference!  I would jump on the powermatic you mentioned.  A byrd head for my 225 is over 3 grand!  I do hope to upgrade to one of them someday.  I don't think you would be sorry on this planer, and a phase ocnverter is easy to come by or build your own. ;)

[Ironwood]

Kelvin,

The Powermatics are ever popular with every crowd (amish/ or english). They always bring a nice price even at auction. I have a 1970 Powermatic 225 (24") Absolutely the standard for high quality fairly late model unit. I paid $4500 several years ago and have never regreted it. I have straight knives with and ESTA quick change set up (ABSOLUTELY HATE IT, HATE IT) The knives don't hold an edge. I will put a Bryd in it in time ($4000  )  I also have a 40" BUSS, and two Oliver 30" 361's, one is mint (Pittsburgh Adult vo-tech school) the other needs a restoration. I love the early iron. If you source a Powermatic, try to find early green color scheme (their best years).

                            Reid

[treecyclers]

I just picked up a Shop Fox 20" 5HP single phase planer, and this thing ROCKS!
I can take a 1" board to 3/4" in 2 passes! Now that's awesome to me!
SD

[Engineer]

Warning label on my Powermatic 180 sez:  "Do not exceed 1/2" depth of cut".

OK.

I'll try not to eliminate my 4/4 stock in two passes.....    :D

I just bought a phase converter because I procrastinated too long and now it's crunch time.  Got a 10HP Gentec/Baldor unit made by American Rotary in Wisconsin, should be enough juice for anything I ever want to throw at it.   I have almost 2500 board feet of pine that I need to plane from 1-1/4" rough down to 1" for wide plank flooring, and the little Ridgid 13" planer needs about 10 passes and CPR to do one board.  I plan on hoggin' it down to an inch, one pass per side, and then a finish cut each side in the little planer.  I'd use the big one for finish too, but I don't know how it'll look yet and I want to make some test cuts first.

Reid, what the heck do you use the big Buss for?  That's big enough to just hog off the tree, skip the sawmill part.

[Ironwood]

Engineer,

The big wide stuff. Reid

[GHRoberts]

The only sawyer I know that planes has a moulder (???) for planing - cuts both faces in one pass.

[BBTom]

I am now running the 20" grizzly that was collecting dust in Roger's shed.  I did upgrade to the Byrd head.  It is amazing what that little 3hp motor will do running the shelix head. 

[UNCLEBUCK]

I run a 15 inch Grizzly and it has been very good ,no complaints but I hope to find a big old 4 sided planer that can run all day. My Grizzly can run all day but I dont think it was intended for mass production so I just go a little slower than most .  Sure is fun to watch a ugly board go in and see what comes out the other end . 

[Faron]

BBTom, what kind of finish does that head produce?  I really like the idea of having the cutter in the wood all the time.

[BBTom]

I was dissapointed with the finish at first, but with some patience, and common sense, it is cutting nice.  Have to line up all the inserts so they make a nice smooth spiral around the head.  I would not call it a finish planer, although a pass thru a sander would clean it up. 

Love the way it goes right thru knots and waves with almost no tearout. 

The truly amazing thing is the lack of noise.  I think the only difference between running it empty and planing a board is the sound of the chips running thru the collector and hose.

[Faron]

That sounds great. 8)  I have hopes of having on on my Woodmaster, or having another machine with one one of these days.  It would have really come in handy with the hickory I have been working with lately.

[Tony]

    Wanting to upgrade to a good planer;   is this a good

deal/package ;   the 718

          http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/propak.cfm


                                  Tony 8)

[pineywoods]

Tony--- I have a woodmaster 718 that has been in regular use for several years. the only problems I have had have been of my own making----nails in boards, forgetting to tighten molding knives, etc. Get SOME kind of shavings blower. This thing will fill your shop with shavings in nothing flat...

[highpockets]

Hi Guys,

This is a little off subject but some time ago there was a guy that used an old treadmill D.C. motor to power the feed on his Grizzley 20" planner.  I now have the motor and controls and would like to convert mine this winter.  Do any of you know or remember this subject?

 

[flip]

20" Griz, 13" Dewalt and 12" Delta.  Best in that order and the Griz is a 5Hp that will be upgraded at some point to a spiral head and a bigger motor.

Flip

[Cypress Man]

Kelvin,

      I am a full time sawer and use two differrent planers.  One is a 3 phase 36" Cresent made in 1956.  It has a 15 hp motor that turns the blades, a 3 hp for the infeed and a 3/4 hp to pick the table up and down.  It can remove 1/4" in one pass.  We primarilly use this machine to plane wide boards (from 20"-28" wide cypress) because of its size.  We had a 3hp 20" Grizzly with straight knives we used for 7 yrs and never had a problem.  We just recently sold it and bought the new 5 hp Grizzly with the spiral head.  it is unbelievably quiet and leaves a beautiful finish.  I would definately recommend this planer.  It only requires single phase 220v, dont go through the problems of hooking up 3-phase just for a planer.

[Kelvin]

thanks for the responses.  Got a 10 hp 20" old powermatic with a fairly new byrd spiral head!  Now i gotta find a phase converter unfortuneately.
KP

[ducknutt]

woodmaster 718..5 hp......vaccum definately needed
grizzly 15 inch planer..3 hp..vaccum helps, but not required

[fireman05]

Kelvin,
I have 2 planers with the first being a 15" Grizzly single sided planer I use for wider stock and pre-planing when a customer brings in poorly sawn lumber which is thick/thin . 

I also have a Logosol PH260 single phase moulder.  I made the jump to this machine due to the demand for customers needing flooring, V-match t & g and moulding.  I have had no major problems with the machine and am quite happy with the performance.  I am looking to possibly add a 2nd unit for milling the hardwoods and flooring and would get the 3 phase unit due to the extra power!  I don't have 3 phase capability and needed a phase converter as well and wasn't sure I could justify the cost for the power.  I now wish I would have since the unit is a bit under powered for hardwood machining especially 6" and wider stock!

I have no problem making money with this machine and use it on a part-time basis milling customers material as well as sawing, drying, milling and selling my own material.

If your ever up North and would like a demo, let me know!

[GregS]

Thanks for the heads-up on the PH260 3 phase power difference Fireman05.  I have one on the way and wondered if I was doing the right thing.  I am excited to get this rolling.  It will be here by the end of the week.

Kelvin,  I built a rotary phase converter and have been using it for years to run a 3 phase mig-welder.  I will see how it runs the ph260 and let you know.  Building a phase converter is no big deal.  If you have a big 3 phase motor laying around.

Greg S

[mur]

Hi GregS and fireman05:
I have a PH260 3phase - running through an inverter.  This is the route I chose as the single phase stories all had mentions of underpowered on wider stock.  It's been awhile since my electrician set up the 260 but I know we had trouble regulating the power to the Italian motors - specifically the side heads as they were also 5 horsepower too.  My site voltage was on the extreme high end and that caused some problems as the Italian motors required a lower and more stable power supply.  End result was we put on another "box" that stabilized the power and controlled it at a specific voltage.  (Name escapes me right now)  The machine has run flawlesslly since.  We also re-breakered the machine as the breakers were inadequate due to the larger motors.  Motors had been mis-labelled as to HP was the story I got.  Feel free to contact me for any electrical info on the 260 that you might need.  I remember it as "fussy" to set up but once we got it configured, it hasn't skipped a beat.  Like fireman05, I pre-plane the wood on the back side to get rid of the thick boards.  The Logosol likes uniform blanks.