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Author Topic: Bed extension on WM  (Read 9083 times)

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Offline Minnesota_boy

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Bed extension on WM
« on: December 17, 2002, 11:40:58 AM »
Has anyone installed a bed extension on a WM for a special job and then removed it to become mobile again?  I do custom sawing and got an inquiry from a local mill wanting some long material cut.  I don't intend to be long term employed by them, but I don't want to "just say no" as they have hired me previously to my benefit.  If you have, how difficult is it (company says 4-5 hours to set it up and must have concrete pads) and would you do it again?
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2002, 12:18:49 PM »
ARKANSAWYER has one.  I'm sure he'll tell you how it is.

We don't live in an area were we get too much demand for long stuff - or anything to saw it out off.  We did saw out some 6x6 x 26' on our LT40 Super without an extension by hook and crook.  It wasn't as bad as I thought it might have been.  Mary sawed half of them by herself.  8)

The process went - saw about 8' up the log and then back the head back.  Raise the log on the rollers about 1/4" and then scoot the log back twords the sawhead.  Set it down and saw the rest of the way out. ::)  

I don't think it's a good replacement for an extension but it worked for the couple of dozen we sawed that way.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2002, 12:24:37 PM »
I did it sort of like that for some 10x12 burr oak, except that I couldn't move them on the rollers with the bark on, so I sawed as far as I could, cut off the slab, sawed again and cut off the board, rolled the log and repeated until I had 4 flats 20 feet long, then raised the log, moved it endways, and sawed off the knob from the end to make it rectangular.  Took a long time, but the customer increased the order from 2000 ft to 20,000 feet just because I could do that part of the job too.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2002, 12:51:18 PM »
I skipped the detail of putting the log on the mill so the small end stuck past the hitch end of the mill and so we could saw clean out the butt end.  :-X  made for some long slabs and flitches.

Mary was able to get four flats long enough for the roller toe board to work before she got down to where she had to start into the small end.

This guy also needed 40-50 2x10s 23' long for the top cord on the trusses

Most lumber was sycamore


Posts were of ERC


Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2002, 03:53:47 PM »
Bibbyman,
I wish I had had the option of starting from the small end, but the way the log were stacked, I always had to start from the big end.  :(

I've decided to go ahead with the extension, so I will report back on how it goes.  I discussed the job with the company's production manager and persuaded him to increase the quantity of logs to insure that it would be worth my while to buy the extension, with the probability of being called back in the future to do more.  Wish me luck!  :)
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2002, 05:43:02 AM »
  The bed extension is not so bad after the first time.  You have to remove one leg on the mill and bolt on a brace.  To take the extension off you have to unbolt and re-install the leg.  I cut the brace off and made a pin set up and now it takes about 1 1/2 hrs to set up and about 30 mins to take apart.  I set up on dirt and level with 12 x12 oak pads and shims.  A nylon string and some wrenches and you are in business.  I try to get all of my long sawing in the same week as I have to dismantle and go mobile in a few days.   I can saw up to 32 ft and it is slick and easy.  With the extension it is better if the butt is to the front and the back toe roller can pick up the log to be blocked to taper saw.  It is a long walk back.
ARKANSAWYER
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Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2002, 06:29:37 AM »
Thanks Arkansawyer,
Boy is it good to hear from someone who has done it.  WM made it sound like a bit more difficult than I was looking forward to.  You gave me some good pointers and I've made the decision to go ahead with the extension.  I wheedled a promise out of the mill's production manager that I would have 40 to 50 thousand feet to start out with and then 20 to 50 thousand each year after so it will definitely be worth while to get the extension.  WM suggested that I have the forklift operator do the loading, but I think I can adapt my hydraulic loader to handle the long logs.  I hate to have to wait for a loader each time I need a new log.  The material I'm supposed to produce will be 8x8 cants and I'm wrestling with exactly how I'm going to handle gettting them off the mill without damage.  I think I know, but the first couple of days will tell the true story.  I hope I can set up to start from the big end, but I'll accept them either way if it keeps the production manager happy.  ;D
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline Tom

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2002, 07:03:07 AM »
make your toe boards into rollers if they aren't already and you can push the cant off of the ends of the mill onto the forks of the tractor.  A good Tractor operator can take the cant off of the back of the mill if you lift it up some with the toeboards.
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Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2002, 09:10:30 AM »
Good idea Tom.  I already have the roller toeboards, plus I added a roller at each end of the mill to help get the cant farther off, but this time I will be at a commercial mill sawing the long logs that they can't handle, and their fork operators will be pretty busy keeping the rest of the operation going.  I'm going to make a ramp to slide the cants off over the sawdust pile onto skids.  I hope I can put a full day's production (or more) off there and not interfere with the fork operator's regular job.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline Lenny

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2002, 12:24:56 PM »
 I saw with 2 people,Getting the beams off is easy with 2  2x6x8'.  I use them as levers, put one end under the beam then push the other end down. The lower beams in the pile will almost slide down themselfs.The others will need to be rolled over..

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2002, 12:59:43 PM »
I tried the 2x6x8 for part of one job.  It worked well until the end of one  plank slid on the frozen ground with the cant on top.   The tail end came down on the drive chain and broke it.  I'll be more careful in the future.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline ADfields

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2002, 01:53:42 PM »
Bolt a chunk of 2x4 to your 2x6 so it will hook onto your beam and cant slip down like that.
Andy

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2002, 03:57:37 PM »
Min-boy
 You may find it hard to belive but you can break a long 8x8 timber.  I once snapped a 4x10x32 by picking it up on the forks.  It is easy to remove timbers by picking up the toe rollers and picking up with the loader in the middle of the timber.

 Also these things are very heavy and hard to move.
ARKANSAWYER
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Offline Tom

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2002, 04:06:32 PM »
minnesota boy,

Another option that you may want to consider is a Cant-Kicker.  

Tim Cook of Cook's saw developed one for the accutrac..  It may work on other mills with proper hydraulic hook-up.  The cant is kicked off of the back of the mill onto a green chain and ultimatly onto a loading platform where several can accumulate and be handled by forks later. Talk to Tiim at www.cookssaw.com They are real nice folks. you can get an 800 num. off of their website.
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Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2003, 05:54:51 PM »
Whoo-boy, my extension and all the parts came yesterday and I started setting it up.  It wasn't too bad to assemble and hook up.  It even went pretty smooth aligning.  That's where the fun really started.  I mounted the mill and extension on 4x4s and have begun freezing them to the ground to make a stable platform.  The location wouldn't allow for removing the cants over the sawdust pile so I'm having a set of rollers made so they can be rolled off the far end of the mill, then slid down an incline onto the pile.  I've hired a welder to build them for me and to make some modifications to the mill.  He has a third log loader arm built and fastened to the mill so I can load longer logs, and he'll be making an adapter to turn the manual log stops into hydraulic like the other 2 on the mill.  If everything goes well tomorrow, I will be ready to load a few logs and start milling them.  Wish me luck!
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2003, 11:33:19 PM »
LUCK!


:)

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2003, 05:29:07 PM »
Thanks Andy.
Looks like things are going to work, once it warms up a bit.  It was -10 degrees this morning so icing things in went really quick.  I fired up the engine to recharge the battery since the welder needed the hydrraulics moved and since it was running anyway, I decided to try sawing one of those longer logs to see if things would work.  By the time I quit I had over 1500 bd-ft piled up so I guess it will work.  I sure could use those outfeed rollers.  I'm just not big enough to handle 30' 8x8 cants alone without them.  Only did 8 of them today, plus the side flitches.  The company that hired me will edge the flitches and pay me for them based on the bd-ft they produce.  If the weatherman is wrong, I'll have another go at it on Monday.  If he's right, I will stay home and look out the windows.   :-/
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2003, 07:09:56 PM »
It is so cool to make them long timbers. 8)  I like them and the bdftage really rackes up fast with them.  If you put the butt to the front you can make shorter side wood and slabs are not such a problem.
 What kind of logs are you sawing?
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Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2003, 05:27:38 PM »
The weatherman was right, it was too cold to saw, but I'm bull headed so I went and sawed anyway.  I'm sawing red pine.  Most are just a bit too small or too crooked, but I'm getting some full lenght.  I get the logs the way the forklift driver brings them to me, some small end towwards me, some butt end.  If I saw from the butt, I find that i have to pry the outboard end up and block it because the hydraulic toe board won't lift that end.  I've been getting boards from 8' to 30' long, but I have to cut the long ones to 8-10-12 so they will fit the conpanies ewuipment.  I have two outfeed rollers as of 3 P.M. today and it looks like they are going to work the way I had hoped.  I've had the welder make sawhorses with an extra leg out at an angle on one side to slide the cants down, so they don't hit the ground too hard.  These are fastened to the end of the sawmill so they won't tip away from the log in case the end is a bit low.  If it warms up, I'll try to get some pictures of the setup.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Bed extension on WM
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2003, 08:50:17 AM »
It has been suggested that you post pictures when you get a project completed.  Here are a few pictures of my current operation.


Logs as they come to the mill


The mill set up with the bed extension.  For stability of the mill, I have set it on 4x4s that I froze to the ground.


A look down the log from the extended end of the mill.


The set of rollers I had made to be able to unload the cants from the mill by myself.  These are tied to the end of the mill and to each other and spiked to the frozen ground for stability.


The hydraulic loader was extended to make loading longer logs possible.  An extra log bunk was added to the mill so the logs would have support as they loded(see the bunk behind the loader that isn't painted?)  Also notice the cant on the loader.  Somebody sent out a cant without making the final cut.  Don't know who would have done that.  :o


Long cant on the outfeed rollers.  This can be pushed to the edge of the rollers quite easily and then slides down the inclined part (really fast)


A completed bundle of 15 pieces.  This bundle was the shorts, logs that had to be cut shorter because I couldn't wind the mill around the crooks.  A lot of the logs were pretty small and there wasn't enough wood to straighten them.

You might notice that the cants were not all square on the edges.  The ultimate customer will turn these cants round for log homes and the cants that are square require more time and waste to get them back round.  The only requirements were that there has to be a saw mark on all sides to guarantee the size will be correct for the product and the bark has to be removed.  What a workout when the bark is frozen to the tree.  At about 15 degrees, the bark will finally loosen from the log and the amount of work to remove it goes way down.  I'd like to only work when it is warmer, but remember that the mill is frozen to the ground and when it warms up I must be done with this job.  I should only have another 20-30 thousand feet to go.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!


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