Timber pavillion design question

[moose]

Below is a model of a pavillion I plan to build for the back yard.  The image shows a few odd things such as a joint in the center of the collar ties which really isn't correct.

The frame is not large so I'm not too worried about the engineering part except for two issues.  The valley- to-corner post connection has become complicated, and the thrust from the hammerbeam and valley on the corner post requires a tieback.

The question:  Can someone point me to some information on how best to deal with corner thrust of two hammerbeams at a 90 degree angle.  Many thanks - Duane

[Jim_Rogers]

An impressive first project....
Much more than a beginner one for sure.....
Did you check out the story "one for your favorites?"
Joe probably can help you with some of your issues....
Good luck with your project.....

Jim Rogers

[JoeyLowe]

For the record, I'm not an engineer and I"m sure that this project could be accomplished with a lot of beam engineering.  However, (always a however), I would think that based strictly on your rendering, that this structure would probablly fail.  the top of your posts are awful busy.  Not much wood available for all that is going on.  How will you buttress your posts?  Are any structural connectors being used or will it all be traditional joinery?

[moose]

Thanks for your comments, I think I'll re-think this.  Back to the drawing board.

Duane

[Raphael]

Nothing like a nice simple relaxing project.  :D ;) :D

How about tying the posts with dragon beams to resist that thrust?
  You can drop the 'not split' collar tie so it is between the queen posts of the hammer beam and tie the rafter to the outer beam making it a rigid truss (also it's two less elements to attach to the post).  It should be pretty rigid as drawn (you're getting the weight well down on the post which is good) but I'm not sure how you will get all that joinery to work at the post top.
  You'll still have thrust from the valley to look at... possibly a long arched brace from the valley to low on the post combined with a tie between valleys (you'll decrease thrust but the posts will need a lot of spine and their bottoms need some serious anchoring) or it's dragon beams again (kill the thrust at or above the post tops).
  You could also jowl the posts along both wall planes to give yourself more joinery room.

I personally would be leary leaving any design that didn't totally kill thrust above the post tops unchecked by an engineer.

[raycon]

Neat. Possibly have the corner post jowel shaped and 5 sided. Could add a brace to the valley rafter as well. Valley rafter would go on  first then the two principal rafters.