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Advice mannual winches

Started by mustang, January 05, 2003, 06:24:52 PM

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mustang

I found after finally getting a 24" dia  x 10' black oak log on my mill after the first cut i couldn't turn it with a peavy.  My question is about these mannual winches on post.  I know they would be slow but how effective are they.

Fla._Deadheader

Don'T take anything I am about to say as criticism. First, are you "hooking" low and lifting with yer LEGS ??
  Second. When I ran my Circle mill, I would put a oil-diesel mix on the bed rails. That makes it a LOT easier to turn a log. Makes it "Slick". Figure you probably know what yer doin, just hadda ask???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

mustang

I tried several positions on the log but just didn't have enough strength to turn.  The bed rails may be part of the problem.  They are 3"x3" x 1/4" angle iron so I'm not sure the mixture would help.  As far as knowing what i"m doing I'm a long ways from that.  I'm working on about 30 hours on the MIll hour meter.  The reason i asked about the winch on a post is i have seen several of these advertised as an option on mannual mills . and i have some even larger logs that are 16'

Larry

That's a good size log to be turning with a cant (can't) hook when your trying to turn it against the dogs.  Most of the time I can't (cant) turn them either especially if they have a big bell on the butt.  To turn them I get help or wrap a chain around it and use the loader.  I have seen the winches (look like boat trailer winch) and they work pretty well just slow.  Most of them have some sort of stand where they mount on the rails of your mill.
Larry
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

SNAFU

I have a TA Schmid manual mill with a electric 12 volt winch on the side. I can load,roll,reposition the logwith it.It's a 2500 superwinch.If the battery gets low I just switch it with the mill battery.I use alligator clips on all wires.Could be rigged up on most any nonhyd. mill.

mustang

Thanks for the info. Sounds as if the atv winch is the way to go. Do you have it rigged to move to different positins along the track for different length log?  As i said i'm new to this but i've found out i'm to old and my back is to weak to continue using cant hook.

mitch

I use a winch that I made from a garden tiller that will only exert a tension of 1600 lbs and it will easily spin a 3000 lb log ( 30" little end x 10.5 ' green oak). It is permanently mounted above my circular mill as a gib crane. Click on this link to view some images of the winch/log turner.

http://www.shagbarkfarms.com/LogTurner/

RMay

Mitch like your fork lift and mill is the J D 350 a gas burner. nothing runs like a Deer . ;D
RMay in Okolona Arkansas  Sawing since 2001 with a 2012 Wood-Miser LT40HDSD35-RA  with Command Control and Accuset .

chet

Hey  Mitch ,   Was just checkin' out your pics, great looking mill you have there. I love the winch setup.  Only one question, what's a guy with a sawmill doing with OSB on his sawshed roof. :D  Sorry I just couldn't resist. ;D
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

mitch

RMay, the JD350 is a diesel. The diesels are so much more fuel efficient. I still saw with the old 1947 JD G. It is a step up from the 1939 JD W power unit that I sawed with for about 20 years.

http://www.shagbarkfarms.com/Sawmill/JD-W_Sawlogs.JPG
 
Sometimes I power the mill with a JD 730 diesel.... haven't tried my new JD 5310 yet. Not sure how the old mill with a flat belt drive will respond to 65 horses.

http://www.shagbarkfarms.com/Sawmill/Flatbelt_drive.jpg

Chet, you are correct...OSB is out of character with the rest of my buildings which are all from  rough sawed lumber.

http://shagbarkfarms.com/

 However one yellow poplar board 1"x18" x 12' at $1.00/bdft ($18.00) will buy several sheets of OSB.

D._Frederick

Mitch,
I don't think that you should have a problem powering your mill with 60hp if you are using the 540 rpm powertake-off. Most old mills had an arbor of least 2 1/2 inch diameter and were designed for steam power. Your old  two lunger JD had a very rough cadence when used for belt power. I use to marvel that a belt would stay on the pulleys the way it would flop around. The new tractors deliver smooth power without the jerks in torque of the old engines, this should reduce the strain on the saw husk and arbor.

Rick Schmalzried

Mitch,
Can you give a little more information on how you made the winch  ???  I looked at all the photos and can't really tell.  :P  I think I know where several front tine tillers are that I could salvage, but I couldn't tell how to modify them.  :)
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mitch

D.Frederick, the mandrel is 2 3/16 inches which is small, but my real concern is the drive pulley (10" wide by 24" diameter) which is cantilevered out about 2 feet from the husk frame. This was to keep the long flat belt at a safe distance away from the offbearer. When powering the mill with the JD W power unit the long belt would sometimes go into violent vertical oscilations to the point that the belt would almost break. This problem was solved by floating a heavy idler pulley on the drive belt about two feet away from the mandrel pulley. I often wondered how the mill would run with a more even source of power. Max RPM for the old JD W is 900. I have saved my long flat belts and hope to have an old time days sawing with the W someday.

Rick, I only used the worm gear drive (30 to 1 ratio) which turned the tines on the garden tiller. It was powered by a 5 HP horizontal engine. Gave a guy $5 for it. I cut off the unused side of the output shaft and attached a 14 tooth sprocket ( # 50 roller chain) through a simple clutch to the other side. A roller chain drives the winch drum (2.5" diameter x 5'' length) via a 36 tooth sprocket (from an old JD wheat drill) attached to a 1 1/8" drive shaft ( keyed). A 3/4 HP 1725 RPM electric motor with a 3" pulley drives the worm gear which has a 4" pulley mounted on the original drive shaft. The motor is actuated by a reversing switch for power in and out. Disengaging the clutch allows  free spooling. A maximum tension of 1600 lbs stalls the motor and protects the system. It will turn a log in a few 10's of seconds...less than a minute. Constructing the winch took some minimal machining. I have a Bridgeport mill and a very old 20" Springfield lathe which helped.

cluckerplucker

 mitch  my mill is set up similar to yours 'but I chuncked the belt drive in favor of a PTO shaft of a old bush hog with a built in clutch . that was 7years ago and never regeted it.
cecil

sawmill_john

Hey Mustang, why don't you use a Hi-lift jack for those big heavy logs, you can either sharpen the lifting hook to grab the log or they do sell a hook on a chain to bite into a log, like a lifting tong.  Just a though, I read you post last night and today going through some information from Hi-lift the light came on.  I've had to position a log or two with one, luckily I don't have to roll the log once its in place, unless I want a large cant.

http://www.hi-lift.com/


lamar

sounds like old home week. I had a B a 60 a 720 a 730 last to were diesels. the b i had riged with a buzz saw on front with idler pulley on belt(floating) never kicked belt off worked great.The b was the most effciant way to cut firewood I ever sawed. Now the 720 730 I used for crops and all field work.I always wanted to run a gen.or saw mill off belt pulley.These engines were designed to run straight off crank and can kick out pto and fuel cosumption was very  low compared to all others.

Tom

welcome to the ForestryForum, Lamar.

mitch

cluckerplucker, Glad to see someone else from NC on the Forestry Forum....Welcome. Is your tractor on the sawdust side or the drive pulley side of the sawmill? Any pics or links to your mill?????

Lamar, WELCOME. I also have a cutoff saw that mounts on the front of the G John Deere. It is driven by a 6" flat belt from the clutch pulley. If someone can feed me the slabs and the offbearer can keep up, it will saw a pickup load of slabs in a few minutes. My favorite way to saw slabs is with an old 6 HP Associated hit and miss engine mounted on a four steel wheeled wagon turning a 32" cutoff saw. it takes a thick slab to make the old engine fire every second revolution....thin slabs may cause it to hit on 6-8 revs. A real delight to hear it run.

dail_h

Mitch,
I bet that mill really makes your G bark. Where are you in N.C.? I have a large balance wheel, that would even things out on your mill.i'm not going to use it if you or anyone is interested.You might want to try somrthing I've seen on a couple of mills,hook PTO to a short shaft with a wide tire on it ,then mount all so tire runs against flat pulley .Works good for mills,& planers & such.Also have extension shaft for mill with bearings to take preasure off husk& run edger.Came off old circle mill that I gave up on
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cluckerplucker

  mitch I dont have a pictue ,but I back the tractor stright up to the blade arbor on the end with the old belt pully on it .and hook up the pTO.  The dust chain ran right beside the tractor . Till I hade trouble with the dust hole filling with ground water. So igot a 4in. grain augar and stuck the end under the blade to remove the dust to a old feed trailer.   cecil
cecil

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