Woodmizer Sawdust Burner . . . . .

Jeff · September 07, 2007, 11:03:23 AM

This thread gets more interesting all the time. 8)

LT40HDD51 · September 11, 2007, 10:15:25 AM

Quote from: Bioman on September 04, 2007, 11:03:02 PM
I'm still pushing our team extremely hard to get the two burners ready for the test release.

:D ;)

Bioman · September 11, 2007, 05:45:07 PM

We made he decision today to delay the test release out of fairness to the people attending the Indy 25th anniversary event. With over 1000 people attending and a lot of them interested in the burner, we think it is the right thing to let them have an opportunity to be one of participants in the first test release program.

Those of you on the list will be receiving a postcard or short letter to this affect. The website will also be the first place we post the 'lottery letter', so watch for it there too.

All is still good......just never fast enough.

farmerdoug · September 11, 2007, 09:07:35 PM

Bioman,

Are you going to have them ready to go by then? Just thinking ahead of installation in the cold. No problem on waiting as long as all of the testers are from the Forum. :

;) Just kidding.

Looking forward to seeing the burner at Indy. No matter who tests it, I hope they are available by next fall for market. I think this will work out great. I see another possible hit for Woodmizer.

Farmerdoug

Bioman · September 12, 2007, 07:12:51 PM

The plan is to have a couple ready by the show. If they are ready, that means we'll have tooling done and ready to build more. We're going to release about 20 of them this year.

farmerdoug · October 18, 2007, 08:43:22 AM

Well here we go. :

The Forestry Forum CRASH OF 2007 ARCHIVES
General Forestry => Alternative Methods and Solutions => Topic started by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 03:41:39 PM

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Title: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 03:41:39 PM
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Biomizer now has bio-dust bags for storing sawdust that allows the sawdust to dry in the bag. I believe they are $0.45 each.

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Stew (Radar67) on September 16, 2007, 03:44:28 PM
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How much do they hold and where can you get them? The website?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 04:06:41 PM
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Not sure on the size but it is mentioned by Bioman on their forum.

http://www.biomizerforum.com/index.php (http://www.biomizerforum.com/index.php)

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 04:23:18 PM
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Bioman is out west but said he would check in tonight or tomorrow.

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 10:57:56 PM
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Bioman, A question on fuels for the Bio-Mizer. How about hay? I can get big round bales of about a thousand lbs for $25 around here. I wonder if you have tried hay in your burner yet?

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 17, 2007, 03:36:05 PM
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I haven't burnt hay, but I have burnt straw. I'm sure it would work fine if you send it through a hammermill.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 17, 2007, 03:37:18 PM
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I'm going to start the price on the bags @$.35 instead of $.45. They can be used several times as they are tied and not sewn after filling.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Furby on September 17, 2007, 03:38:54 PM
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Are these the same bags that were at the pig roast?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Stew (Radar67) on September 17, 2007, 03:43:13 PM
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What is the capacity of the bags?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 17, 2007, 05:17:46 PM
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The bags at the show were 19 x 35. The bags we are going to sell are 19 x 36.

Each bag will hold approx 15-20 lbs or air dried sawdust.

You will burn approx 6-7 bags of dust per day in the winter (average of 100 gals or 120 lbs/day).

The bags are meant to be tied and not sewn. They can be used several times.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Stew (Radar67) on September 17, 2007, 05:20:56 PM
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Are you bringing plenty of them to Moultrie?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 17, 2007, 09:07:32 PM
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I'll be bringing 1000 of them to Indy. We have 10,000 more coming for distribution to branches and sales. We're going to give out sample bags and sell to those who want them in volume.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Dan_Shade on September 18, 2007, 09:28:14 AM
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the more I read about this biomizer, the more I want one....

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 18, 2007, 11:32:43 AM
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I wish you could be at our end of things to sense the excitment.

I told the guys it would be cool if we could actually have the first one for sale at the WM show. I think it is possible.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 18, 2007, 01:56:10 PM
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Maybe with all of the interest you should auction it off. ;) Afterall number one only comes once. 8) 8) 8)

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 18, 2007, 03:29:19 PM
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Fun idea. If we can pull it off we may just do that.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: MikeH on September 18, 2007, 10:00:36 PM
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Does the Biomizer work with wet sawdust fresh off saw?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 18, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
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Only the industrial burner uses it fresh from the saw. A small amount of air drying of the sawdust is required if using the domestic unit. We routinely burn 45% moisture, but we recommend 30% for efficiency. In any case dry dust is best. Dry dust burns hotter and you burn a lot less. It's amazing how much dust is used to burn off water.

It doesn't take much to dry the dust to the 30% range.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: LT40HDD51 on September 24, 2007, 10:33:36 AM
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Any new updates on the slab grinder?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 24, 2007, 02:24:34 PM
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They tore the first prototype down and are building Revision 2. I hope to have something at the show in Indy.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: ElectricAl on September 24, 2007, 10:21:43 PM
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So what really happens when sawdust right off the mill is used?
Just use more?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 25, 2007, 09:40:43 AM
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The original small burner prototypes struggle to burn hot enough to keep the combustion temperature high enough to sustain burning. The evaporation process cools the chamber and the end result is a flame out.

Now, with that said, we have made modifications to the newest revision. The chamber is slightly bigger, and we made modifications to the 'secret component' that has improved the capabilities of the machine. I was running the machine at over 150,000 BTU output (continuous) yesterday on fuel that is probably in the 50% range. We bagged the fuel Friday and it sat tightly packed in a kiln for three days. The bags were still heavy, so I know there was still a lot of water in it. I'll oven dry a sample today.

If my educated guess is right, we can burn the wet fuel. However, it does take a little longer to start, and you have to run it at full speed to keep it going. The safety limits built into the machine will handle overtemps etc. If the machine cools down to far, you may have to run a few more seconds of propane to relight wet fuel vs dry fuel.

Sorry for the long answer. The short version is - 'yes'.

I'll test wet fuel after the current fuel bin is emptied out.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 25, 2007, 09:42:26 AM
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Grinder update -

The engineering group in Indy is joining the competition. They have already tested on unit and have moved on the another revision. I am pushing to have a prototype of some kind at the show.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: ElectricAl on September 25, 2007, 08:05:16 PM
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We blow our sawdust 100' through a 6" line. Our plan is to place the BioMizer approx. 75' down stream. The blower tube already goes over head in this area. We'll add a drop line directly into the 100 gallon tank. When the tank is full the sawdust will blow past the BioMizer to a wagon.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 25, 2007, 08:39:30 PM
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Are you going to use a boiler or air-to-air?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 25, 2007, 08:50:08 PM
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Bioman,

I remember that you working on drying the sawdust. Have you come up with anything yet?

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 26, 2007, 10:18:39 AM
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Haven't had the resource to work on it yet. We're drying bags in our hot water container kiln for now.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 26, 2007, 10:25:27 AM
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The sawdust we burned yesterday was 40%. I let it run out and reloaded with fresh dust and haven't been able to start up on the wet dust successfully. :(

There is still hope though....I've been doing these tests on an older prototype. The new one has a slightly larger combustion chamber that should raise the threshold.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on September 26, 2007, 10:32:05 AM
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While reading the sawdust collecting thread I had thought. I know that can be dangerous I know.

What if you designed a dust transfer system with a hopper to feed it and a cyclone collector on the other end. Then you feed the air to the blower through a heat exchanger from the boiler. The heated air would remove moisture from the sawdust while it is fed from the hopper to the cyclone. If this is clear as mud let me know. roll_eyes :D

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 26, 2007, 11:49:57 AM
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Actually, we tried to figure out how to do that on a small scale so you can 'dry on the fly'. Haven't had enough time to chase it so far. I imagine the solution will present itself during the evolution of this project.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: ElectricAl on September 26, 2007, 08:47:19 PM
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BioMan,

We plan on a boiler style. The Saw Shop is 40x80 and is all radiant. This system will be the easiest to hook up to. It uses water and percentage timers to trigger pumps for 2 minutes on and 30 minutes off to guarantee the lines do not to freeze. All the lines are insulated, but we're not taking any chances. The thermostat functions as normal during off time.
The other system consists of a 4000' conventional hot water kiln and 2 separate wood shops.
This system has antifreeze in it.
The biggest problem is both systems are 200' apart.
Time will tell if they get tied together.

We had an idea on how the "Dry on the Fly".
The thought was to blow warm air up the transfer tube.
Using a standard size auger and tube to meter the product from the hopper. Then enter a tube twice the size with a nylon bristle auger. The larger auger and tube will allow air flow and agitation.

We did an oven dry test on Walnut sawdust that had gone through our 100' blower tube and came up with 75%.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 27, 2007, 09:53:13 PM
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Sounds like you have nice systems there.

I don't know for sure but I think walnut is nominally 60-80% moisture in the log. How warm was the air you were using? I'm guessing you need more temp to make a bigger difference.

A system like you describe would be nice if we can get the right amount of air to achieve the drying we need.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 27, 2007, 11:04:02 PM
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We tested 'dirty' chips in the 1,000,000 BTU burner today with great results. It looks like we'll be able to burn more than Bio-Dust in this machine. The only problem we had was the large pieces hanging up in the 6" auger. (I'm talking pieces that were up to 2' long

). Clean chips wouldn't be a problem at all. We'll try some mulch from a RotoChopper tomorrow.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: ElectricAl on September 28, 2007, 09:19:07 PM
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Quote
How warm was the air you were using?

Our dust blower just draws ambient air. There is some heat generated by the sawing process. Quite hot at times right off the saw. But even that burn your hand hot sawdust cools considerably by the time it travels 100'. I would guess we're knocking 5% MC out going though the system.

It sounds like 75% may be a problem for the standard BioMizer.

From a previous post
We had an idea on how the "Dry on the Fly".
The thought was to blow warm air up the transfer tube.
Using a standard size auger and tube to meter the product from the hopper. Then enter a tube twice the size with a nylon bristle auger. The larger auger and tube will allow air flow and agitation.

Quote
A system like you describe would be nice if we can get the right amount of air to achieve the drying we need.

Our thought was if the brush auger turned slow enough that 180 degree air could remove 25%.
It really would not take very many CFM if the temp was high enough.
It's the same as kiln drying, the hotter it is the faster things happen.

Just another idea for the R&D team

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on September 29, 2007, 09:56:54 AM
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The heat created by sawing gets used up quickly with evaporation. Adding warm air and agitating the material as you suggest should make a big difference.

We would have a problem with 75% on the small machine. I'm trying to push the threshold up to 60%. I'm not sure how much higher we can go with the combustion chamber we are using today. I'm sure we can increase the size of the chamber to get there, but that will have to be at a later date. We have to stay on the current path for now.

We are adding more resources to our engineering group to speed up the evolution of the project. We just hired a chemical engineer to research the ethanol opportunity. He's working with us in KY to get up to speed on everything during this period that we're getting ready for the pilot release and show in Indy.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: cook37184 on October 01, 2007, 01:28:11 PM
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GO, Bioman, GO!
Guys, seems as long as we keep ideas churning, they'll keep researching! It seems like there's a lot of us out here slobbering on our boots waiting for a chance at these burners. Then, of course, we are not able to leave well enough alone, so think of the mods that are gonna pop up after we get to run one for a while.

As for the "dry-on-the-fly" system, why not a small copper coil inside the blower pipe to warm the air before it picks up the sawdust?

Greg Cook

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 05, 2007, 06:02:54 PM
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Grinder update -

The guys in Indy submitted a video of their first POC (proof of concept). In the original thread and at several shows we've had the suggestion to stack cheap 7 1/4" carbide blade to make a cutting head. The blades in this video are set up to wobble like a dado blade.

They're going to clean it up and have it at the show next weekend.

I don't know if this code will embed the video here or not. If it doesn't work and you want to see it do a search on Bio-Dust at www.youtube.com.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f81vHvSLxpc"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f81vHvSLxpc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 05, 2007, 06:04:01 PM
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It looks like I need to do some homework on how to embed a video...

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: beenthere on October 05, 2007, 06:24:15 PM
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Bioman
It sure makes dust...need to dub in the music from the video "dust in the wind" that came up along with Bio-dust search on youtube. ;D ;D

Was the quality of the dust about what you wanted? appeared to be pretty fine, but that may have been just the extra fine dust coming from the grinder..

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 05, 2007, 06:31:30 PM
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I haven't seen it yet. They sent me the video to review, so you viewed it few hours after I did. I'll try to get the engineer that is working on it to sign in and engage in this group.

I'd say the dust was about right. Not bad for a POC 3hp machine.

We're still busy getting ready for the show.

We're pretty sure we're going to auction the first machine off at the Indy shindig. The first one will be equipped with the $1000+ touch screen We'll also be recognizing this person with a special jacket, certificate, etc. Still trying to figure out the detail of getting it back some day for the museum....We had to trade a new mill for the first one bought by Mr Bistrovich.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: beenthere on October 05, 2007, 06:34:22 PM
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Only attendees at the WM 25th able to bid? (and I'm not bidding... ;D )

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Dan_Shade on October 05, 2007, 06:35:16 PM
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is this the video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/wW2GC_wFkaM

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 05, 2007, 06:40:43 PM
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Yes. I tried to look it up on youtube and couldn't find it for some reason.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: beenthere on October 05, 2007, 06:45:52 PM
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That is not the one I found when searching, but it is next to it (see the others at the end along the bottom). This one shows the dust pile building up. The other shows the dust..in the air.

Is the board dry? mc?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 05, 2007, 06:49:57 PM
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I don't know. I'm guessing fresh poplar - they saw alot of it in the Wood-Products building. It could be dry wood from the molding shop though.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: LT40HDD51 on October 06, 2007, 01:16:27 PM
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Looks like he had to push fairly hard to feed it? I guess you will play with different pitches and hook angles etc. with the blades...

Are the tolerances close enough in there to load the hopper with chips?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 06, 2007, 08:11:58 PM
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They said there would have to be a feeder. To much clearance for chips on the prototype. I asked him to see if he could tighten it up and try it.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: LT40HDD51 on October 08, 2007, 11:40:00 AM
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I think we were talking about that before the crash. It would be great if I could put slabs and edgings (edgings are a real pain in the butt to handle) through our big chipper and into a large hopper feeding into a grinder like that. Half hour of chipping could keep it busy for a while all by itself. We got an old 12" Asplundh unit from a tree service company for $800, probably lots of them around. With a 6 cyl. Ford, it takes care of a days worth of slabs in a hurry...

Not to mention the tree service guys usually have a huge heap of chips piling up somewhere. Im sure I could get the boys to drop off truckloads if I could process them...

Another thing I wondered about the other day is construction scraps. Building stuff creates a pile of small, odd-shaped wood scraps that are a nuisance to get rid of. Could small pieces and chunks forseeably go in the hopper and be ground up?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on October 08, 2007, 09:30:59 PM
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Bioman,

How about a picture of the first unit you are auctioning off?

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 09, 2007, 12:03:47 PM
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Farmerdoug,

I won't have a picture of the final project for a day or two. There is a rendering of the unit on the biomizer forum.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 09, 2007, 06:44:09 PM
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We just tried something a little different with fuel mixtures.

We know the small machine has trouble burning wet fuel in the 60% range.....so we mixed a small amount of rubber shreds to see if it would make a difference. The mixture ratio was light (didn't measure it), but the interesting thing is the fuel burned like it was under 30% MC with no smoke or smell. If a mixture of rubber/sawdust were to sit around and dry out in the bag, the BTU value would simply go up with time.

The whole idea of mixed fuel grades is starting to look like a significant opportunity.

We've ordered a SO2 meter to check out emissions to know for sure if we're okay, but it sure looks good.

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: LT40HDD51 on October 15, 2007, 08:31:37 PM
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My brother and I have been discussing how we can (better) use a power source we already have running all day - our diesel edger........

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: beenthere on October 15, 2007, 09:05:48 PM
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Any update on the biomizer that was 'auctioned' off at the WM anniversary?

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 15, 2007, 09:28:26 PM
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We didn't auction it. The new burn chamber needs a 'tweak'. It ran great, but we don't want to add the cost for the extra part we put in it to make it work so well. We know that when we get the configuration just right we don't need the extra part we installed for the show. Worst case is we add the part and maybe have to charge a couple extra dollars. Adding the part makes it work better in all materials...

I'm thinking maybe we sell #1 on ebay instead......

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: farmerdoug on October 16, 2007, 06:10:45 PM
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Bioman,

It was great meeting you at the show. 8) 8) 8)

You guys sure know how to throw a party. ;D

When are you guys putting out the lottery letter?

I will be talking to you via phone again soon.

Farmerdoug

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Title: Re: Biomizer
Post by: Bioman on October 17, 2007, 09:30:37 AM
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The bulk mailing to announce the procedure goes out this week and the web signup will be available next week.

farmerdoug · October 18, 2007, 08:47:20 AM

That worked great and quick. 8) 8) 8)

Farmerdoug

ElectricAl · October 23, 2007, 11:08:02 PM

These photos are from the WM 25th anniversary show.

Nice banner to get us started.

At the show was a working prototype BioGrinder. It uses a bunch of 7 1/4" blades stacked together to reduce edge trimmings to dust. The power source was a Yanmar single cylinder diesel.

The BioMizer display drew a good crowd all day. I had a chat with a young man from Pennsylvania who was Amish. He was quite interested in the machine for their pallet business. Later at the BioMizer Seminar he asked if the machine would be available in 12 volt DC. BioMan did not know if the controller could be built for 12 volt DC, however the Amish man was directed to the engineer working on the controls. I have not heard the answer yet.

This photo of the display did not come out so good , but it was real nice ;)
There are 4 primary temperature displays. Water, Combustion, ? (oops), and flue. What was so nice about the system is each of the 4 could be ramped up and down using a touch screen. Also, the efficiency was evident when the combustion temperature was 1475 and the flue temperature was 425.

BioMan made a few quick changes to the system to make it cycle on and off.
Pretty neat, the dust re-ignited without any smoke or use of LP fuel.

BioDust is stored in a 100 gallon poly tank.
This should last about a day in any average home.
So who does not have an average home

put your hand up with me :D
Anyway, the storage tank has an agitator in the bottom to keep the dust fluffy and feed it into the transfer auger.

Power for the agitator and transfer auger comes from a little gear motor.

Ash is automatically discharged from the BioMizer by an adjustable timer. At the show this nice metal can was used to collect a minimal amount of Ash.

This Biomizer was sporting a nice Camouflage sticker.

Cedarman · October 24, 2007, 08:46:56 AM

About 2 years ago I stacked about 9" worth of blades on my gang rip to take cull boards into sawdust for a product we sell. The machine had a 15 horse electric motor and had enough power to take the 3/4 boards. That was a lot of mass spinning round the shaft. I couldn't get things balanced just right and didn't spend too much time on it, but it did work. I would love to experiment with the angle of feed, feed speed etc to make it work.

Bioman · October 24, 2007, 12:07:38 PM

Al,

Thanks for the picture display. The temperature with the ? is Ceramic temp. We use a TC to measure the temp of the outer surface of the ceramic to know when the chamber is hot. With this info we can tell the machine whether it needs to use gas for a re-ignite or not.

Ed_K · October 24, 2007, 08:45:44 PM

Bio-man, I went to the bio-mizer site and asked about the dust grinder but haven't heard back. I'd really like to know more about your intentions on this. I'm wanting to make sawdust for animal bedding,and possibly start a market to utilize lowgrade wood.
Ed K

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 11:44:13 AM

I just got the email a couple of hours ago. We've made a few proof of concept versions (small scale) to see from which angle to approach the project. What we are pretty sure of is that we are going to work on a grinder to reduce chips to dust and not slabs to dust. The grinder project will be priority right behind the release of test units. Until then, it is not our primary focus, but we understand the importance level of the project is huge.

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 05:42:04 PM

Here's another product we've built and are testing. Would there be any interest in a product like this if we were to release it?

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 05:42:59 PM

I thought I did it right.... :( I'll try again.

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 05:46:03 PM

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 05:48:37 PM

The log splitter is a horizontal/vertical unit.

beenthere · October 25, 2007, 06:42:18 PM

How is this wood splitter an improvement over the run-of-the-mill units available now? Any breakthrough's? Has a trusted name on it... ;D

stonebroke · October 25, 2007, 07:06:48 PM

Are You gonna have a four way wedge on it?

Stonebroke

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 07:35:32 PM

No breakthrough's. Just a good quality log splitter worthy of the WM name.

Bioman · October 25, 2007, 07:37:59 PM

No 4-ways on this model. You have to give up the Vertical mode with the 4-way design. Cost goes up too. We're just wondering about handling a standard splitter with the WM name. If the basic unit was sellable we could move into the higher production machines later.

We did do some testing on a unit with a rotating wedge (turret style). Cool but expensive.

Stump Jumper · October 25, 2007, 08:44:50 PM

keep the primary focus and try to make the secondary focus a slab eater ;)

stonebroke · October 26, 2007, 08:25:13 AM

northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company has a vertical splitter that has a four way. I would rather buy from you then them.

Stonebroke

OneWithWood · October 26, 2007, 12:18:05 PM

The splitter market is fairly saturated. The slab grinder market is wide open ;)

Gilman · October 26, 2007, 12:26:01 PM

I have the 4 way splitter from Northern and it works great. I did have to weld on a guard to protect the motor. If WM had one, I would have bought it from them. The wedge guide (how yours attaches to the I beam) is a good idea. That style is self cleaning verses the channel iron rail style.

What about more of a wood splitting system idea? Additional conveyor, stand, anything that would go along with a wood splitter?