Shooting Wolves

[Peter Drouin]

I don't think we have them in NH, But that can be an easy fix.
   

[gimpy]

I don't know if that's a lot since Oregon only has 50 to 100,

You need to clarify your statement. There are only 50-100 wolves that the wildlife department has documented. That number doesn't come close to the true numbers. There are 10+ that call some property I own part of their territory. That is only one small part of one county. You must live in an urban Oregon city. It'd help if you asked some of the people that actually own large parcels of rural land where wolves live and hunt. We have 9 day deer hunting seasons because we've lost a large number of deer. Wolves are one reason for their numbers declining.

In spite of what the news tells you, OR-7 is not the only wolf with a pack in Oregon.

[terry f]

   Gimpy, that 9 day season has been around 30 years, long before the first wolf took a drink of water from the Snake River, and decided it would be a good idea to swim it. OR-7 has the newest pack (Rogue) and the second newest pack is the Meacham Pack, which is on the same ridge I'm on. Wolves were never introduced in Oregon, but they are here to stay. Ranchers use the sportsmen as pawns in the wolf fight around here, but they hate the elk as much as the wolf.

[Paul_H]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-launches-wolf-hunt-to-save-caribou/article22480868/

184 wolves to be culled in BC

[SwampDonkey]

They have not announced why Quebec in the north is loosing their caribou heard, but we can guess I suppose what might be helping it decline.

[SliverPicker]

When a single winter kills over 50% of the herd why is there no call to reduce the number of deer licenses sold during the next fall?

if that is the way your State DNR performs, that is sad and is no wonder you think like you do. Our deer herd and licenses are regulated and assessed on those things every single year, as well as the other predators that prey on the deer. Other than the wolf. Seems like the wolf lovers only get one sided information or choose to disregard the other side.

Call me a wolf lover.  That's fine.  That's your term not mine. It doesn't bother me in the least. Since you obviously see the term "wolf lover" as derogatory it seems that you are "bashing" when you call me that.  Isn't that behavior against the rules here?  Just asking.

Question; Have you seen any decrease in the number of licenses given this year for deer?  In the U.P. this year it was the status quo as far as license availability.  If wolves really where going to cause the extinction of the whitetail deer as many contend why were doe permits available for hunters over the counter this past fall/winter? If the whitetail population is so perilously poised on the brink and last winter killed an estimate 56% of the herd in the U.P. why were permits given to kill does who in many cases are pregnant?

All the arm waving aside it seems to me that since the DNR did not curtail license sales and they take in to account predation of deer by wolves and winter-kill etc. the evidence points to the herd not being in such a predicament after all.

So, with the wolves in place in Michigan, how long before the whitetail population is extinct?  Serious question.

Good day, all.

[WmFritz]

If the whitetail population is so perilously poised on the brink and last winter killed an estimate 56% of the herd in the U.P. why were permits given to kill does who in many cases are pregnant?

All the arm waving aside it seems to me that since the DNR did not curtail license sales and they take in to account predation of deer by wolves and winter-kill etc. the evidence points to the herd not being in such a predicament after all.

No Anterless Deer permits were issued on public land in the U.P. last year.

[chet]

Sliverpicker, I copied this link so you could get your facts straight.  :

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Antlerless_Deer_Hunting_Digest_459377_7.pdf

(Copied from the Michigan DNR website)

2014 MICHIGAN DEER HUNTING PROSPECTS IN THE UP
Biologists recommended closing
all public land and all but three private land deer management units for antlerless licenses
this year in order to allow deer numbers to rebound over the next three years. The three
units currently open for private land antlerless licenses are located in the south central
portion of the UP which typically has higher deer populations than anywhere else in the
UP. Antlerless permits are available in Deer Management Units: 055 (Menominee), 122
(Norway), and 155 (Gladstone).

[Jeff]

Call me a wolf lover.  That's fine.  That's your term not mine. It doesn't bother me in the least. Since you obviously see the term "wolf lover" as derogatory it seems that you are "bashing" when you call me that.  Isn't that behavior against the rules here?  Just asking.

Guess what. I make the rules and my rules are different then yours, so be very very careful. You obviously get your facts wrong, as your post on our U.P. wasn't even close to being factual. I'd not be arguing the point with people that actually live there.

[red oaks lumber]

what i find funny(i say this sarcasticaly) anyone i have ever talked with that really supports wolves don't ever get their facts even close to being accurate. ;)
i think the biggest answer that gets me hot is when i have been told to by wolf supporters that i should just change occupations if i don't like wolves, really? i'm gonna stop now cause my additude is slightly poor, and i don't want this thread to end in the wood shed

[coxy]

ROL  you have more self control than I do  ;D I feel sorry for all you ranchers and support every thing you do about the problem your having I don't live there but have friends that do and the things they tell me  well lets just say im glad I live here or other wise id be in a 10x10 concrete cell  keep up the  pest control 

[OntarioAl]

ROL has to maintain self control the "Feds" have him  "profiled" any wolf that is found dead near his place he immediately becomes one of the "usual suspects".
I am no fan of wolves having  been around them all my life. They are not endangered by any means in this area (North West Ontario) but the government now requires me to buy a license to hunt them (limit 2) Farmers and landowners can shoot them for livestock and animal protection (Yes Virginia they will kill (sometimes just for pure spite) and eat your pet dogs, cats etc.) but you are required to report it to the Conservation Officers.  There are the usual programs for compensating livestock owners for losses but it turns into a bunch of bureaucratic red tape and the $ forthcoming (when and if) never equals the loss and as for pets I hope you took plenty of pictures for memories.  Needless  to say up here  lead based wolf repellant is very popular as is SSS.
One sure sign that you have timber wolves in the area..... the coyotes disappear.
If wolves cannot survive in an area without draconian protections they do not belong there anymore. If you want to introduce them into a National Park (Yellowstone, or large Wilderness areas) fine but outside they are on their own.
If you are a fan of protected reintroduction of wolves then why not grizzly bears to all National Parks and Wilderness areas in their former range all the way to the Mexican border. ;D A search shows that historically the bears ranged all over the "left coast".
Coming full circle ROL is not a multimillionaire nor does it seem he has the political pull to make common sense prevail among a certain fraction of bureaucrats.
We have the same mentality up here but the wolves are no way endangered so they can't play that card, but they seem not be able to make the link between increasing wolf populations and decreasing Moose and Woodland Caribou populations I suppose they think that the wolves exist on the "old sick and lame" fairy tale.
My response is "What do wolves eat when there are no easy pickings left?" 
Living among the Wolves
Al

[Grizzly]

One sure sign that you have timber wolves in the area..... the coyotes disappear.
If wolves cannot survive in an area without draconian protections they do not belong there anymore.
If you are a fan of protected reintroduction of wolves then why not grizzly bears to all National Parks and Wilderness areas in their former range all the way to the Mexican border.

That is what my neighbours talk about. They have been trapping coyotes and wolves in this area for about 50 years and try to keep populations under control, but they told me to keep an ear open and if we never heard coyotes to let them know. We are outdoors people but did not grow up with this much wildlife around and our neighbours take good care of us. Education and such.

They also say that the wolves will survive regardless of how many they shoot (oops ... harvest)  ;)  as you only see a few of the ones out there and the ones you see are the problem ones. The rest stay out of sight.

Banff National Park has had how many deaths due to Grizzlies? I don't know where the exact stats are but it seems we read several stories each summer about another hiker taken out. Harvest all the Grizzlies? Or just learn to leave them alone when they are in the territory where they belong?

Anyway I'll keep the powder stick around for anything wandering near here and keep reading this thread as many of you have good education due to your proximity to the creatures. I love wolves and love it when my hair stands on end when I hear them howl but they won't survive near my residence or corrals.

[terry f]

   Grizzly, that last sentence might be the best thing I've read on here.

[isawlogs]

They have not announced why Quebec in the north is loosing their caribou heard, but we can guess I suppose what might be helping it decline.

  Over grazing, numbers have yo-yod for ever, they are at the low end of peak and climbing. twenty years ago they where at the peak of the peak. Only so much lichen to go around and its not like it grows overnight .....

[JIM GORMLEY]

Last night my girlfriend let our dog out around 3:30 am, and there was a pack of coyotes in the .treeline,which is about 100 ' away from our back door. They tried to surround my doog and atleast one chased my girl and dog into the house. I heard her screaming to grab my gun cause of "the wolves". I grabbed my 30/30 and ran out the door. The sound of the howling sounded just like the  rrecording a few pages back.

The neighbors little dog was tied up outside, hes one of  those yappy little dogs,or I should say was, I heard them pounce on him. Our backyard is a mountain that butts up to harriman . State park in NY.
I ve heard them howling in the distance but never had them this clise to the house

[thecfarm]

The neighbors little dog was tied up outside, hes one of  those yappy little dogs,or I should say was, I heard them pounce on him.

That poor dog had no place to run. Not that it really mattered. They might of got the poor thing anyways.
I had a dog that we would let just run around here. He would go out in the woods. I would hear the coyotes here too. I was always concerned that they would gang up on him.

[chet]

GRAND RAPIDS (AP) -- Wolf attacks in Michigan's Upper Peninsula killed at least 26 cattle and 17 hunting dogs last year.

MLive DOT com says the numbers come from the Department of Natural Resources, through December 22nd. The number of attacks, 35, was higher than the 20 reported in 2013.

[terry f]

   That seems like a high number of hunting dogs, do you use dogs to hunt deer up there?

[barbender]

No, those are bird dogs I would guess. Wolves have attacked bird dogs on several occasions that I am aware of in MN (while hunting, i.e. the hunter was right there.)

[WmFritz]

It's never been legal to run a dog on deer in Michigan. I've heard of those incidents here too, where a Grouse hunter hears his dog being killed and he can't get to it to help.

[red oaks lumber]

alot of dogs in wisconsin are killed when running bear during bear season. back when the states had some control,there were areas of the state that was designated as "wolf territory" meaning if you lost a dog to wolves in those areas  the state would not re emburse the hunter for the lost dog.
i was poking around the farm yeasterday and found wolf tracks as close as 60 yrds. behind one of my hay barns.

[sandhills]

Around here we have neighbors that use greyhounds to run coyotes, wonder how surprised the dogs would be if they jumped a wolf instead.

[chet]

It's never been legal to run a dog on deer in Michigan. I've heard of those incidents here too, where a Grouse hunter hears his dog being killed and he can't get to it to help.

Actually it was done way back in our states history, as well as in other states, mostly by market hunters.   In 1887, a law was passed making it illegal to use dogs or lights for taking deer in Michigan.

[DonT]

Can someone explain to me how or why a large wolf population will decrease the coyote population? I have heard this a couple of times but do not understand why. Coyotes are usually hunted in this area with hounds.