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Author Topic: soydiesel..what went wrong!!  (Read 4267 times)

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Offline RichlandSawyer

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soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« on: February 12, 2007, 02:26:11 PM »
I have a F350 7.3l diesel and have been chomping at the bit to get a fill'em up station close by with biodiesel. It finaly happened just before christmas and about a month ago before the temp went south i filled up the big rig. The pump had a notice that said the fuel was blended to be anti-gel to -20 degrees. I still added a bottle of "PS" additive just incase. Yesterday the temperature finaly came above 32 degrees and the truck finaly stayed running for the first time in 3 weeks. Not sure were the breakdown ocured but i've learned my lesson. I'll still use the biostuff in the warm months but never again in arctic cold. I've had this truck for 6 years and have never even had to plug it in even when we dip to -10 or -15 degrees. I talked to a farmer friend who uses soydiesel and he told me of it gelling in a 5 gallon can at 18 degrees. I really like the idea of renewable stuff but i'm a little gun shy now.

Tony
RichlandSawyer
Every log i open up, a board falls out!!!

Offline scsmith42

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 02:29:59 PM »
A friend of mine runs it in his pickup all the time.  He has a separate tank in back, which is heated by the engine coolant.  He starts the truck on his regular diesel tank, and after it's warm switches it over.  When he shuts down he switches it back so that the injector pump has standard diesel in it.

No problems in several years of use.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 03:49:21 PM »

 2nd post is exactly how it's done in colder climates. Other Veg oils will stay liquid at lower temps, but, no one wants to talk about them  ::) ::)
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Online Gary_C

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 04:03:22 PM »
Not sure what year your 7.3 diesel, but Ford was bad about putting too small of fuel lines and hoses on their pickups. My old 92 7.3 was always having problems in the cold with any fuel. Part of the problem was cured by putting double hose clamps on all fuel connections and tightening them until they squeeled. When it was very cold, the connections would rather suck air than fuel. Also, on older engines, you will need to change the fuel filters right after you start using biodiesel. Biodiesel is hard on rubber parts.

In Minnesota, all diesel is now blended with 2% biodiesel and the max recommended in the winter is 5% because of cold flow problems. Even at 2%, last winter, the first year they tried the 2% blend, they had some gelling problems and the large trucking companies forced them to stop. Apparently they had some biodiesel that was below specs on cold flow but they have corrected the problem for this winter. The local coop has a tank for biodiesel for summer use and last winter when they checked end of the year inventory, that straight biodiesel was so thick the weight they dropped bounced off the surface.  :)

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 05:11:46 PM »

 First, there are NO rubber fuel lines on vehicles. Petro and Bio both attack rubber, BUT, they are NOT rubber lines. Neoprene maybe.

  First thing that happens when you switch to Veg oil or Bio fuel is, the stuff is a wonderful cleaner, and it cleans all the gunk buildup in the tank and lines. That will partially or completely plug your filters. Depends on age of vehicle. You would be AMAZED at the amout of build-up in your fuel system.  You need to change the fuel filter maybe more than once after switching.

  Second, Commercially made Bio fuel is NOT exceptionally clean. It could be well below standard. ASTM has set standards and will be checking all retailers. FFA's or Free Fatty Acids, are what are converted to bio fuel. Fat gels !!  ::) ::)  It also is converted into soap, and SOAP gells.  ::) ::)  Remove these things and you are better off, but, it will still gel. There is an additive that some guys are using, that they claim lets them use Biofuel down into the - numbers, IN A BLEND.

  From reading on a couple of forums, home brewers are meticulous in getting CLEAN fuel. There may be significant quantities of water in the fuel. It MUST be reduced or even eliminated.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Online Gary_C

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 05:59:44 PM »

 First, there are NO rubber fuel lines on vehicles. Petro and Bio both attack rubber, BUT, they are NOT rubber lines. Neoprene maybe. 

All flexible fuel lines are made of rubber. Fuel of any kind will attack all rubbers, it's just that the synthetics as opposed to natural rubber (latex) will degrade at a slower rate. Neoprene is actually a synthetic RUBBER.

Viton is a brand of synthetic rubber and fluoropolymer elastomer that is used in the newer injection pump seals and hoses in fuel systems and is most effective in resisting attack from the newer fuels like biodiesel.   ;D
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 06:25:00 PM »

  That's almost like the "I didn't inhale" line  ::) ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline RichlandSawyer

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 12:28:51 AM »
Thanks for the insight fellars. The truck is a 2000 model year. The funny thing is the truck would sit and idle but when i put it in gear and started to move it wouldnt rev over 1500rpm and eventualy just die from lack of fuel, must have been just a partial plug. Very frustrating. Now that its warmer she's running like a champ. The station i purchased the soydiesel from is a major retailer in this area, i was in the station this afternoon and mentioned to the manager the situation i had encountered just as FYI to them, well apparently i was misinterpreted because i thought i was being very polite but she didnt see it that way!! She became instantly defensive and if i hadnt left on my own i'm pretty sure i would have been hauled out by the scruff of my neck. I'm guessing someone else besides me had the same trouble and wasnt as nice as i was trying to be. Well that will teach me to be the nice guy.
Every log i open up, a board falls out!!!

Offline Dana

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 06:31:57 AM »
RichlandSawyer, I don't believe diesel additives or anti-gel conditioners work on biodiesel.                                                                                                                  I burn blended straight vo in my 2000 F-250  and a 5600 Ford tractor during the warm months. Other than having to change the fuel filters frequently, no problems.
I am looking into a better prefiltering system for this summer. Maybe using the outdoor wood boiler to heat up and dewater the vo. Also thinking of making the jump to making biodiesel but need to talk to someone with experience.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 07:14:51 AM »
 Won't get any better than right  Here

  There are guys on that site that are amazingly clever. They have this fuel thing down to a science, Literally. Some are using an additive with very good results.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline scsmith42

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2007, 11:20:37 AM »
Harold, that's a great link.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Dana

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 01:37:59 PM »
FlaDeadheader, Went to your link at 1000 and now it's 1:43. :o Been reading the centrifuge post. :)
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Offline flip

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 03:46:44 PM »
Since I work at a Ford dealer, we have access to a message board for all differnt parts of the business.  One thread I've been intrigued with is on the "tech to tech" board which talks about using used transmission fluid (which has been collected through routine services and filtered) and mixed with diesel in the tanks.  As of now the thread is 309 posting long.  Most guys have the 03 and older 7.3 where they mix 25% diesel with 75% trans fluid with 0 problems.   Some are even running 100% with a switch tank in the bed after truck is started and warmed up.  Great lube for the injectors, just have to keep the filter changed more often.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2007, 04:04:14 PM »

  Yup, Good site, similar to this one.

  Anybody that follows the advice on that Forum, will have little to no problem with SVO or Biodiesel.

  There's a great discussion on washing fuel, and NOT using water. Graham Laming is near Genius on experimenting.  He developed a Distilling Column that gets near EVERY bit on Methanol out of Biofuel, after processing.

  These guys make soap that has NO equal in 90% of the Soap Market.

  It's a very addictive site.  ;) ;) :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Dale Hatfield

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Re: soydiesel..what went wrong!!
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2007, 04:22:29 PM »
Dont feel Bad about gelling . Last week when we hit 15 below their were 3 of them  inside of a mile from here with the hoods open and  filters being changed.One of them mine Thats with ULSD.
Dont think ill be dumping any tranny fluid in anytime.
Dale
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver


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