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Author Topic: need help from the welders again  (Read 2898 times)

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Offline OneWithWood

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need help from the welders again
« on: March 22, 2007, 07:54:24 PM »
Spring is just aroung the corner so I thought I had best dial in the mower deck.  During my inspection I noticed the bolt holes in the plate holding the drive gear and sheave have wallowed out considerably.  Two holes should be round and not oblong and two should be square and not oblong  :(
What is the best method to fill the holes so I can redrill the round ones and file out the square ones?
The plate is 1/4" steel.  I have a 100 amp Craftsman buzz box (stick welder) and a Lincoln 175T wire feed (MIG) unit to choose from.  The buzz box max stick is 3/16 and the mig unit is set up for .35 steel wire.  I do have .35 flux core that I can use also.
Thanks for the help.
One With Wood
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 08:51:40 PM »
I have never been able to drill or file after welding. I would just forget the carridge bolts and use a hex head bolt. If the holes are too big, drill out to the next larger size.

The problem was most likely caused by those low grade carridge bolts being loose. Use loctite and make sure the new ones are tight and stay tight.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 08:57:25 PM »
OWW - if it were me, I'd probably approach it from one of two ways.  First, make a larger instert for the deck that has the proper hole in it, and then weld it in place (if room allows, weld it over the existing deck so that you have two layers.

If you don't have room for a sandwich, then take a holesaw and cut out the old bolthole and then weld the new insert into the hole (also using the holesaw to cut out the insert).

Another option would be to take a couple of flat washers, and weld them on each side of the hole, and then file your holes as needed in the flatwashers.  The original deck/hole would be sandwiched inbetween.

For something as thin as a mower deck, I'd either use the MIG or braze it with oxy-acytelene.  Be sure to clean the bottom side of the deck thoroughly of the stuck-on grass clippings; else the heat / sparks may catch the grass clippings on fire.

Scott
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Offline DWM II

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 08:59:18 PM »
Some pics would provide some more insight but I think you have a couple of options.

1. Use some heavy guage copper clamped to the back side of deck and weld up the entire slot/hole. You  will have to clamp the copper to each side and weld each side. Use a grinder to dress the welds on both sides and repeat untill you have a good solid surface. Then you can layout and redrill/slot the holes you need.

2. Pre-fab a seperate plate each with the slot  and hole as needed, cut out the bad section of deck to match the pre-fab pieces and weld them in their place. After welding them into place you can gusset across the top or bottom which ever has the room.

The mig gun will likely be the way to go, it will produce the least amount of conductive heat using the squirt and stop method. Becareful to not warp your deck and good luck.

Donnie



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Offline sgtmaconga

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 02:17:00 AM »
you could also try welding the right size washers in the holes. it's quick down and dirty but it works.
Measure twice cut once

Offline sprucebunny

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 06:47:30 AM »
Here's a link to something that might help.

The kits are expensive but the replacement (individual pieces) are reasonable.

http://www.repairtech.org/

I didn't see any pieces for rebuilding square holes  .
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Offline isawlogs

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 10:03:53 AM »
 I had to do a deck a few years ago , and I  did  what Scott is sugesting , that is cut out the hole and put in a new one .. the sandwitch  washer will work well too . It is kinda hard to file a square , I cut one with a chisel and used it . I also used grade 5 bolts instead of the soft bolts that where in there .  ;) 


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Offline Murf

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2007, 12:04:57 PM »
I too agree with Scott and MArcel.

Besides, if the first ones wore over-sized ya might as well beef em' up while yer at it.
If you're going to break a law..... make sure it's Murphy's Law.

Offline Qweaver

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2007, 03:30:14 PM »
If the deck is 1/4" steel (that's a mighty thick deck) I'd weld it up for sure.  Use the MIG and a backer to make it easy to weld. You could leave the backer in place but if you do, seal weld it to prevent a place for rust to start.  Grind the face level, center punch and drill and file as normal.  The weld should be easy to drill and file because the weld metal will be annealed and slightly softer than the base metal.  I've welded up many a hole by just going round and round until the hole is filled and then back grinding and welding the opposite side.  Just be sure that you can exactly relocate where the holes should go. 
Welding the  bolt in place is another way to deal with a wallowed hole, especially on thin materials.
Quinton

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Offline sandman2234

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2007, 10:55:46 AM »
I can't imagine a 1/4" deck being considered a thin deck. I have several bushhogs that don't have that much metal in them, and they are stout!
    David from jax

Offline olyman

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2007, 03:09:44 PM »
personally--i wouldnt braze a mower deck---or anything else that has vibration--the brazing WILL crack---use the mig--non flux wire--and go to town----you can take a scrap piece of copper tubing--flatten it--and use it as a backer to weld holes shut--hold the copper with something--or clamp it--heat travels real quick in copper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sometimes the copper sticks to the copper--just chisel it off---

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: need help from the welders again-now with pics
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 09:03:36 AM »
I finally remembered to take a couple of pics so you could see what I am trying to describe.  The bolts holes are on a 1/4" plate that supports the drive gear and drive sheave.  It is bolted to supports on the deck but is separate from the deck.





I thought I had taken two more close ups fo the holes but apparently the camera did not want those pics!

So far I am leaning towards the washer and fill method.  If I could cut 1/4" steel easily with a hole saw I would lean towards the new metal idea.

One With Wood
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Offline Sprucegum

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 09:32:36 AM »
The old washers have rubbed out a perfect spot to lay in a new washer. You can weld 2 or 3 washers together in a stack to give more strength. From the way the hole is worn you can see you need some thickness of metal to support the bolt.

Use a bolt of the right diameter to bolt the stack of washers to the worn hole, weld all around the outside of the washers with your mig, making a nice fillet weld all around. Remove the bolt and there is your bolthole - right where you need it  :)

You probably need new bolts anyway so get them 1/2 inch longer than the old ones to allow for the extra metal thickness.

Offline isawlogs

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 05:00:58 PM »
 Here is what I would do ...   
    Get 1 " X " flat bar steel  mark 1" square washer on the bar ...  drill " hole before cutting square washers from plate . I would file my holes for the cariage bolt head , grind where these washers are going on the plate  then put the washers on the outside of the plate you are going to fix ... bolt things together as it should be , once every thing is in place ...  tack weld all the washers , unless you can weld them there ... I would use the stick welder for this , either 5/32"  7018 rod or 1/8" 7018 rod ... Once they are tacked in .. you can take the thing apart with out having the washers move ..
 
   I can if you want put this all in French to make it clear as mud .  ;D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Offline LeeB

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 10:30:56 PM »
Why stick instead of mig? I know nothing about mig, just wanting to learn sumpin.
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 10:56:36 PM »
Marcel has the right answer. That is what I would do, except I would have to use my wire feed welder as I do not have a stick welder anymore.

I do not know why, but most all good welders prefer stick welders.
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Offline Sprucegum

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 02:49:59 AM »
On metal that may not be perfectly clean stick welders will burn out the rust-paint-dirt better than mig will and give you a stronger weld.

Only in the last couple years has the quality of mig wire improved to where it can compete with stick on all levels of strength, toughness, wearability, etc.

Offline LeeB

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 03:03:05 AM »
so now I know. Thank you. :P
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline isawlogs

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 08:51:00 AM »
  Yep , stick will go through the grim if any left after grinding , , I should of mentioned that .... :-\  Also , OWW said he had core flux wire available , that wire is good for certain places , but not here , heat is need to cut through and penatrate the older metal . The core flux wire will not be able to generate enough heat for proper penatration ... :P
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: need help from the welders again
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 10:11:51 AM »
Mercy buckets, Marcel.
I can do the square washers on the round holes on top of the plate.  I do not have clearance for the square holes on the turned flange.  The plate supports the drive gear box and drive sheave and the clearance for the belt is very small.  I will have to fill and file those holes I think.
One With Wood
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