Stimulus package and the economy

[Tom]

Yeah!  And, I'm all excited about it.  I like blowing things up.  :D :D

[breederman]

 I think it would be more fun,and cheaper,  to just do a fly by with the space shuttle and stick a shotgun out the window. :D It might take a couple of passes to get the tragectory figgured out,but what the heck.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah but star wars was satellites shooting other satellites
and shooting ICBM down. The Russians actually had a manned spy
satellite with a cannon and on the last manned mission they fired
it just to see how the station would take the shock of the
recoil. They said it shook the place quite bad, but she held
together. That was the problem, you needed sometime like lasers
that wouldn't shake the thing to bits from recoil.

It's safer to shoot from the ground and you haven't got to deal with
something orbiting at 17,000 miles per hour above the earth
that is rotating at 1000 miles hour. One thing that did come out of
it though was GPS. It probably wouldn't have taken long to devise a
computer controlled site, but are there lasors powerful enough yet.
I don't know.

[Don P]

If you give a kid a bb gun he's gonna use it   : :D

[logwalker]

DonP,

"Truer words were never spoke".  ;)

[OneWithWood]

Didn't the Chinese blast a comm satelite out of the sky last year?

[OneWithWood]

Gotta go back a couple of pages and pull this quote of Blumberg from one of the links - sorry I fall behind on the weekends. . .

In his answer, he praised Democrat Barack Obama for the plan the Illinois senator outlined on Wednesday that would create a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to rebuild highways, bridges, airports and other public projects. Obama projects it could generate nearly 2 million jobs.

Last month, Bloomberg and Govs. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California and Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania announced a coalition that would urge more investment in infrastructure.

"I don't know whether Senator Obama looked to see what I've been advocating, or not -- you'll have to ask him -- but he's doing the right thing," Bloomberg said.

What do you think?  The WPA and CCC were successes.

[flip]

The chinese and north koreans are professional hipocrites. The Chinese can send up a missle and take out a failing "weather satellite" without telling any of the other nations but when we announce we're doing the same they throw a fit.  Space belongs to no nation so as far as I can see things we don't need permission from any government to remove our personal property how we see fit.  And to continue this rant, we should insist any nation that has spoken out against our inpending satellite removal that they turn off all radars, sensors, tracking devices or any other equipment that would monitor missle flight or the resulting impact. 

If China or Russia want the poisonous hydrazine or the top secret technology they can buy develop steal it like they usually do.  Or do like what everyone else does, spend a few hundred million dollars and develop it themselves >:( >:(

[Ron Wenrich]

Ed Rendell talks about improving infrastructure, but then wants to go and lease out the PA Turnpike and turn I-80 into a toll road, along with I-81 and I-83.  Interesting to note that no Interstate that runs through Philadelphia or Pittsburgh is being eyed for tolling.  Rendell has turned out to be a horrible governor and has run up some pretty good debt.

WPA and CCC were brought about when there were no welfare programs.  People that weren't working weren't collecting unemployment benefits.  So, the fed made those programs to get the country back to work.  It worked for awhile, but started to fade before WWII brought us out of the recession. 

Our biggest problem isnt't infrastructure, its how are we going to fund government.  Way too many programs for our budget.  Bring the budget in line, then you'll have the funds needed to improve infrastructure.

[OneWithWood]

Our biggest problem isnt't infrastructure, its how are we going to fund government.  Way too many programs for our budget.  Bring the budget in line, then you'll have the funds needed to improve infrastructure.

I'm in total agreement with that statement.  Do you have any proposals for doing that? 

Let's assume that the average American's tax burden is close to if not at the max carrying rate.  Where should we start trimming?

I'll go first -

Eliminate ear marks but don't give the President a line item veto - without the earmarks there should be far less of a need for a line item veto and it is important to preserve a balance of power

All government contracts should be bid and the bid awarded to the contractor that meets all the bid criteria at the best price

Scale back, if not eliminate, susidies to oil and power companies.  If those companies engage in R&D the tax code allows for the deduction without subsidies

Limit malpractice suits and at the same time curb what health care entities charge

Reign in lobbyists

[SwampDonkey]

Brings to mind a current class action law suit against one of the regional health authorities here in NB. It's because of work done by a former pathologist on 15,000 patients between 1995 and 2005. All those test are now under review. The trouble with a lot of these things is no one goes to jail and they get a meaningless fine and victoms continue to suffer.

[DanG]

When and how did the term "Earmark" creep into the vocabulary?  Is that the same thing they used to call a "Rider?"  Most any legislator will tell you that they are necessary, because there simply isn't enough time to debate and vote on every little thing individually.  There is probably some truth to that, so maybe a "Line Item Veto" for earmarks only would be the way to go.  The Earmarks are also used as bargaining chips when someone is trying to drum up support for his bill.  "Pssst!  I'll let ya tack on your Bridge to Nowhere if you'll vote for my War."

It seems to me that they could save a lot of money by redoing the way Departmental budgets are handled.  The way it has always been done, if they don't use up all of "their" money, they don't get as much next year.  Something in the Bureaucratic ego dictates that they MUST have a lot of money.  DOT is the most visible offender.  It's kinda hard to hide a new bridge. :  They have another project going on in the Tallahassee area, where they're replacing miles of guardrails along I-10.  I guess the old ones weren't shiny enough to suit them.  Also, on the hilly parts, they lined the ditches with concrete to stop them from washing out.  Well, now they're digging up that old concrete and replacing it with new concrete! ???  What's up with that?  A while back, they dug up the grass on the shoulders and replaced it with new grass. 

A lot of other departments do the same sort of stuff, but a lot of it is done behind closed doors.

[isawlogs]

Well, now they're digging up that old concrete and replacing it with new concrete! ???  What's up with that?  A while back, they dug up the grass on the shoulders and replaced it with new grass. 

   Esthetics and genetics  ;)

[Tom]

I don't buy that "Don't have time" crap.  If they are doing their job, it takes as  much time to study a Bill whether it stands alone or is a "Rider" on another, totally unrelated, Bill.  To put one bill on another is doing the citizens of this country a disservice.  What they are saying is that they don't want to take the time to spend on every little bill.  Give me a break!  That's their job!!  If they don't want to do the job, step aside and let someone do it who wants to do it.

If I were the President and received bills with other bills attached, I would veto them every time, just for sheer principle.

Do away with that "bargaining".  It's a misnomer anyway.  It's also dishonest and shows the lack of respect the congressman has for his country.

Sometimes I'd just like to go through the halls with a 2x4 and run those idiots off.  If they worked for me, I'd fire the lot.  Too bad I don't have a vote but for few. >:(

[Don P]

I'd like to suggest good homegrown old hickory, it would be a shame to use something inferior and have it fail halfway through the job  :D.
Michelle was on the USDA website the other night and started rattling off all the farm subsidies and funding that was riding along on the war spending, pretty amazing.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah the minister of Agriculture keeps showing how ignorant he is. He says farmers have to become more efficient to compete. Apparently, subsidies and cheap labour costs in other countries have no bearing. Farmers here are as efficient as any developed country and a lot more efficient than most "developing" nations. Food stamped product of Canada apparently only has to be processed here, not grown, caught or raised here. :

I wonder how efficient pollinating pear trees by hand with cotton swabs is? :

[Ron Wenrich]

OWW

You've got a good start.  But, I'd expand the cutting of a lot of the corporate welfare.  I heard that 90% of the ag subsidies go to the big ag businesses.  I don't think that was the original intent of the law.

The Defense Department needs to have an audit.  They haven't had one in quite some time.  I read that they think there is about $1 trillion that can't account for.  With a budget as large as theirs, there should be some sort of oversight.

Get rid of the IRS and put in a fair tax.  The income tax has become a big boondoggle that no one can understand. 

Consolidate government departments.  We have too many cooks trying to tell us how to cook our own goose. 

I would also like to see a time limit on legislation, best if used by date.  Having a program going on forever is really ridiculous.  We didn't stop paying Civil War benefits until quite recently.  The last Union widow died in 2003, and the last Confederate widow died in 2004.  Programs should be phased out in a timely manner and allow a new congress to reinstate it.

[Tom]

Something called a "Sundown" should be implimented on every bill passed.  Infinity could be a valid sundown for kudos paid to citizens.   Sundowns should be a required step in developing any bill/law.  Without it, the bill should be invalid.

[Dan_Shade]

OWW, what's the negative side to a line item veto?

I'd vote for one in a heartbeat if it were to come up as an ammendment.  Congress can override a presidents veto.  I see the line item veto as a powerful tool to chop out earmarks and pork barrel spending.

[logwalker]

I just checked to see how many pages the current Federal Tax Code is. Are you sitting down?

"By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.

The number of words has been left as an exercise for the student."

[Handy Andy]

  Speaking of lobbyists, if they really wanted campaign finance reform, seems to me they would have stopped corporations from donating money.  Corporations are an entity that does not vote.  If you stopped the lawyers from sueing "spelling?" doctors, health care costs would come down on their own.  But hospitals always have been high priced.  When I was a kid, if you had no insurance, you got a cheaper price for  cash.  Less paperwork. I'd like the farm program to be scrapped. They include too much in it that limits what comodities are worth, as well as too many regulations. When they need a new bill, the grain companies write it.  ThInk that's good for farmers?  My dad used to say he got 200 dollars from the farm program, and the big farmer next door got a new combine.  That kind of discriminates against the small farmer.  Not worth putting up with their bs.  That's what I think about most programs.  Only good for the big.  They include so many regulations that the small are pushed out of business.  Guess who writes the program?  Think about the regulations for the HVAC business.  See conglomerates buying up those businesses and corporatizing them.  Jim

[SwampDonkey]

Well I believe in helping the farmers in certain areas. I don't believe in giving someone money to do less or nothing, such as growing less acres or corn. What I would support is help with veternary medicine, land improvements (that would include lime), crop insurance, marketing. I'd pretty much leave everything else up to destiny and demand that all imports meet local environmental, food safety and labor standards. We have all kinds of bureaucrats that like trade missions, it could double as inspections. Heck we have missions to inspect weapons of mass destruction.  :  Regarding buildings, land purchases and machinery, borrow the money like anyone else.

[OneWithWood]

Good points, everyone.

The problem I see with the line item veto is that it can be abused easily to block legislation that has been worked out collaboratively, in good faith, by congress.  It takes a 2/3 majority to overide a veto.  That is a considerably higher bar than a simple majority to pass legislation.  If there are no earmarks the only reason to have a line item veto is for blocking purposes. 

[johnjbc]

Doesn't seem right for Congress to pass any thing that benefits only one part of the country. A 2/3 majority vote requirement would be a good idea. If Il. Needs a new "What Ever" the state should pay for it, not me unless I live there. The problem is that one good item has 10 Pork Items attached and 90%  of our money is wasted. I'm all for line Item veto. The President wouldn't get away with using it on something everyone wants.

[DanG]

OWW, I see your point, and share your concern about that aspect of it.  However, if the earmarks only are subject to individual Veto, the President could send them back to Congress for further consideration.  Many times, an issue can be resolved between the two branches by compromising after a Veto.  In other words, Congress can clean a bill up and send it back to the White House without overriding a Veto.  I agree that a true "Line Item Veto" on bills that have been through the process could be a dangerous thing, but I really disdain all of the unrelated riders the Pres. has to approve just to get the big issues resolved.