Smart Car

[Toolman]

I keep reading about the high mpg diesels over in Europe. I don't see them in this country. I'm gettin fed up with our Federal government regulations. The EPA is spending way too much time regulating emissions. If they regulated the COMPLETE combustion of fuel in an engine, there would be no need for cat converters, smog pumps, EGR systems and other silly gadgets they add to vehicles that rob you of power and actually decrease fuel economy. I have an 03 Ford 6.0 PS diesel pickup. Now listen to this! There is a diesel mechanic in our are that patented an EGR delete kit for the 6.0 l . I bought vehicle with 19,000 miles on it. I would get 18mpg hwy  15 city. I had him delete EGR. My mileage went up to 21mpg hwy 18mpg city. I added a fuel warmer device that I bought from Brightgreen.us.  My fuel line runs through a heat exchanger that warms fuel by using heated coolant from top radiator hose. UNBELIEVABLE RESULTS!! Lou LaPointe, a retired fuel chemist is a genius. I now get 24 mpg hwy, 20 mpg city. Read Brightgreen.us web site. This guy has good info. I spoke with him on phone numerous times with questions. He is a darn good guy. If a dummy like me can get this economy, why can't Detroit and EPA produce the same. I use acetone in my fuel and synthetic motor oil to add lubricancy to this low sulfur diesel fuel. I submitted report to my local congressman, Todd Platts, he admitted to me over phone that there is a real problem in this country concerning fuel standards, etc. I now have 98,000 miles on my truck, no problems with excellent fuel efficiency for it's size. I'm fed up with the corruption in our government. I plead with you all to contact your state and Federal representatives and complain, complain and complain. Check their voting records, ask them questions, put em on the spot!! Don't be afraid to tell them they are dead wrong. That's your right, by god use it! You put them in office, you can put them out of office. Please read Brightgreen.us, he is non-profit. He shares good info. on fuel economy and politics of the Oil industry. >:( >:( >:( >:(

[Brucer]

Early market research showed Canadians would go for the high mileage, but Americans wouldn't be seen in a car that small. So the diesel-powered Smart came to Canada around the end of 2004.

Not too long afterward Roger Penske began negotiating to bring the Smart to the US (with his organization being the exclusive distributer). However, he figured Americans would still want a higher performance car, so he arranged to bring in the cheaper gas-powered version. It's got about 60% more power, along with higher fuel consumption.

Now Smart Canada is only going sell the gas version in Canada. I don't know if they're worried about Canadians buying the cheaper vehicle in the US, or if it's just cheaper to bring just the one model to North America.

If you're interested, but not quite ready to buy, why not try one out this year. Then, if you like it, tell them you'd consider buying one if it came in the more fuel-efficient diesel version.

[Brucer]

Random experiences:

Don't lose your key! This was a leased car and it only arrived with one key. The replacement procedure involves:

• proving I actually own the car -- fax a copy of the registration papers
• proving I'm me -- fax a copy of my driver's license
• prepay for a new key -- give them a credit card number
• wait 2 weeks for a key to be programmed
• make a 4-hour (one-way) drive to the dealer so they can program the car to accept the new key (and also de-program it so it will no longer accept the missing key).

The new key costs $280, and the dealer charges $60 to re-program the car :(

Another silly reaction. Guy who used to work for my customer (and knows what I do for a living) saw the car and said, "So you finally replaced your truck!" My response, "Yep, you'd never guess a car that small could pull a 3500 pound sawmill around."  ;D

I can't believe it. Barb is talking to people about -- cars ??? This is a woman who isn't interested in cars. Thinks they're boring, a necessary evil. Actually, I think she gets a kick out of having something really different to drive.

Several of our friends have knee problems. Barb's got two artificial knees for that matter. everyone finds the car easy to get into and out of.

It's got a pretty neat seat design. Basically it slides at an angle. When a short person pulls the seat forward, it also rises up, giving him or her a better view of the road. When a tall person pushes the seat back, it sinks down, giving the tall driver more headroom.

People have suddenly clued into the fact that you can't buy new diesel Smart cars in Canada anymore. I could easily sell this car for $2000 more than I paid for it.

I took a couple of pictures of the car parked next to my truck -- I'll post 'em as soon as my daughter figures out how to get them off her camera into my computer.

[Dave Shepard]

The side of the car is all door, no wonder it's easy to get into. :D I hate having to go anywhere in my fathers car. I almost have to take a running leap and wiggle sideways at the last minute. Sure puts the ick! in Buick!


Dave

[Warbird]

So I've got a few questions.  I don't want to sound confrontational, so please do not take it that way.  I am starting to think about what our next car will be, even though it is a long way off, God willing.

From the tech specs on that car I got the following:

"Recommended fuel      premium unleaded gasoline (min 91 octane)"

and

"City/highway (mpg)     40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008)"

First off...  why the "minimum" 91 octane fuel?  Do you know how much extra that costs here in Alaska?

Secondly, why the difference in MPG from 2007 to 2008?  33 MPG in the city is pretty good but not quit double what my car gets.

Thirdly, they claim the car costs around $10,000 to $11,000.  Is that what it is actually going for at the dealer?  Even if it really is going for $10k, I still can't justify that cost when my current vehicle is bought and paid for.  See, I don't do a lot of driving compared to the average American.  We are already conservatives in how we drive, car pooling, etc.  So for the number of miles I drive, even consuming 12 - 15 MPG less, $10k is a *lot* of money.

*edit* Couple more I just thought of...

Forthly, is there any documentation on how those cars work in extremely cold environments?  It is a huge problem with hybrid type cars (ie. they suck up here), so I'm curious how this one performs.  Does it stay warm in the cab at -50 F?  Does it even continue running at -50 F?  What happens to its fuel mileage at extreme temperatures?  What is its real gas mileage running on oxygenated fuel?

Fifthly, can you haul 2 people and enough groceries to feed a family of four for a month in it?  We often buy bulk to save money.  From the photos, I can't tell how much real storage the vehicles has.

*edit 2*

Last one, I promise. 

Sixthly, is there any indication yet on how well the car is engineered?  How long does it last?  How easily repairable is it?  Can you do it yourself or do you have to get the car to a dealership 200 miles away and pay exorbitant prices to get it fixed?  How much do replacement parts cost?  Are replacement parts readily available?

[John Mc]

"City/highway (mpg)     40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008)"
...
why the difference in MPG from 2007 to 2008?

Most likely it's due to the fact the the EPA tightened the standards recently for how MPG is calculated to make it more realistic. You'll probably notice the drop across the board on all automakers, even those who made no changes to the car in question.

Forthly, is there any documentation on how those cars work in extremely cold environments?  It is a huge problem with hybrid type cars (ie. they suck up here), so I'm curious how this one performs.  Does it stay warm in the cab at -50 F?  Does it even continue running at -50 F?  What happens to its fuel mileage at extreme temperatures?

I can't help on the cold weather info, but this car is not a hybrid.

Still wishing they'd sell the diesel in the US (and without ruining it first by upping the engine size or similar "for the american market").

John Mc

[Warbird]

Thanks John.  I know it is not a hybrid but it is still different enough from a 'normal' car that I thought to ask the question.  I hear you about the 'american market' stuff.

[Tom]

Another question might be, "can a hitch be installed to pull a small trailer for groceries that don't fit the car".

[Warbird]

Another question might be, "can a hitch be installed to pull a small trailer for groceries that don't fit the car".

Only if you wanna get out and push?  :D  j/k.

[Dave Shepard]

I'm waiting for the SmartStretch limousine. :D :D

It would be huge, maybe even as big as a Civic. :D :D


Dave

[Handy Andy]

  Last time I was in Cozumel, saw a 150 Honda MC with a ball hitch added on the back.  Heard they passed a law so only 3 people could ride on a motor cycle. 

[Brucer]

So I've got a few questions.  I don't want to sound confrontational, so please do not take it that way.

Nothing confrontational in your post, Warbird. I did a lot of questioning and pondering before I bought mine. It won't be a good choice for everyone, that's for sure. To answer some of your questions ...

I'd guess "minimum" 91 octane fuel is to deal with a higher compression engine. More power in a smaller package.

I expect $10,000 to $11,000 is in the ballpark for the bare-bones version. When the diesels first appeared in Canada, the difference between the bare-bones model and the "loaded" model was about $6000. I certainly wouldn't have given up my Cavalier simply to buy a Smart. It was strictly a case of the 14-year-old Cavalier giving up on me, with the Smart as something I'd been thinking about for 3 years.

I can't tell you about performance at -50 F. What I can tell you is that Don's diesel ran fine when the temperature dropped to -25 C (-13 F). The car was clearly made for cold winters. Glow plugs on the diesel, rear-window defroster, special rapid defrost position on the fan are all standard. There's also several cold-weather options: electric booster in the ducting to give you hot air before the engine warms up, electric seat heaters, outside mirror heaters, and a plug-in interior heater that'll pre-warm your car before you get into it.

I suspect 2 people plus a months groceries for 4 would be pushing it. Barb just made her regular trip to the co-op market (an hour's drive away) and came back with a 3-week supply of groceries for 2-1/2 (my daughter's living here part of the week at the moment). Barb used the passenger footwell to carry some of the supplies, but she figured she could have got it all in the back without too much trouble. See the note below about trailering

The car is very well engineered. They've been around for 10 years or so in Europe. Don has seen one go through the auction with 400,000 km on the clock -- about 250,000 miles --  and it was in great shape. Mind you, that's the diesel version. Doing your own repairs would be tricky. Space is really tight and it has a lot of computers. Warranty work pretty much has to be done at a dealer (80,000 km (50,000 miles) /  4 years for the diesel). The warranty says if the car cannot be safely driven, the warranty covers towing to the nearest authorized dealer. But then, when they fix it you have to go and fetch it since it can be safely driven then.

On the other hand, routine services don't cost any more than for a typical North American car ($125 / $175 for the A & B services). These can be performed by repair shops that have the necessary qualifications.

Another question might be, "can a hitch be installed to pull a small trailer for groceries that don't fit the car".

Yes, it can. They make a hitch especially designed for the car (costs about $800 :(). It was meant to pull one of the small trailers you can buy for towing behind motorcycles.
I haven't seen the hitch, but there are two hefty threaded sockets at the back of the car for inserting an eyebolt for towing. I suspect the hitch might attach to these.

[Warbird]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Brucer.  I'll have to check if we have a dealer 'round these parts.  I'm 6'1" with long legs, so it'll be interesting to see someday how I fit into one.

[Dave Shepard]

Supposedly two 6'5" people can ride in comfort. When you look at the car, it's all front seat. :D

I've heard that the gassers are pushing 50 mpg. There are two around here, one right yellow, : , and a nicer gray one. I still think it would look cool with two 78" LogRites bolted on the roof. ;)


Dave

[Dave Shepard]

I've seen several different SmartCars in the last week.

Brucer, can you give us an up to date report on your Smart?


Dave

[slowzuki]

I'll add the diesel in the Canadian models although may not accelerate like a V-8 monster beat my Suzuki Samurai and our Sidekick with the 96 hp 16 valve motor.  In town it was faster up to 30 mph than any of my co-workers normal family sedans.

[Brucer]

Brucer, can you give us an up to date report on your Smart?

Sorry, been out of touch for a couple of weeks.

A few quick impressions:

22.5 km/L = 64 mpg (imperial) = 53 mpg (US). That's an equal mix of city and highway driving, all on mountain roads (even in town -- Rossland's on the side of a mountain ;D). Don gets 70 mpg (imp) = 58 mpg (US). He lives and works beside the Columbia River and doesn't have to deal with the hills.

It feels like a "normal" sedan inside (yep, it's all front seat). That makes it seem like a  regular car. You don't get any more intimidated by big trucks than you normally would. So it's a bit of a surprise when you're backing toward an obstacle and peer out the window to see you've got 8' more room than you thought. I pulled in behind a friend's car the other day, got out, and realized I could have been 6' closer.

Handling is excellent. It leans less on corners than a regular sedan -- probably because all the heavy items (except passengers ;D) are down low. The car has 15" wheels and the front discs are huge -- bigger than my brother's Chevy pickup.

We knew we'd have to make some lifestyle adjustments when we got the car. That's a given. You can offer a friend a lift, but not a couple of friends. If you weren't a creative packer before you get one of these cars, you will be after you get it. But still, there's a surprising amount of room for stuff.

It's really interesting how many people smile when they see the car. I mean, just about everyone smiles, except the handful who make stupid remarks about the size. For them, I just say, "64 miles per gallon". It cuts the jokes off instantly ;D.

This car was on sale last November for $18,000. No one was buying then, 'cause they were worried about how it would do in the snow. By February, fuel prices were going up but the main local industry was in contract negotiations, so still no one was buying. Don brought the price down to $15,500. That's what I got it for. He's been trying to always have one on the lot, but they're really starting to move (contract was settled, no strike, people suddenly realized the diesels ain't gonna be available no more). That means he has to scramble to find them, and he's competing with several other dealers. Last week he managed to pick up 2 identical to mine, and has them listed for $21,000. And he just sold one for that price. All in all, I figure I did pretty good.

[shinnlinger]

My wife just bought a used 2004 scion XB (the box) for 9 large that had 32k on it.  It gets 38 mpg and hauls 4 people and gear pretty well.  pretty peppy. And I fit in it just fine (6'4" 250) with room to spare

Problem is the new scions (Toyota) are bigger, have bigger engines and get low 30's per gallon.  Toyota did the same with their trucks.  I have a mid 80' sr5 longbed out back and it is dwarved by a new Tacoma

WHy cant they keep them small?

[John Mc]

Yeah, sounds like Toyota "Americanized" that Scion. My wife had the same experience with her Saturn. She bought one of the first sold in her town, with a manual transmission, hand crank windows -- a plain-jane type of car. She was getting mid 30s MPG in mixed city/highway driving. A year or two later, they changed the design... bigger engine, loaded down with more options. Mileage not nearly as good. Some day, the car companies will realize that not everyone in the USA wants to drive Hummers as a commuter car.

[moonhill]

Don't we all want bigger and faster cars?  Tim

[DKinWA]

I'd like to think the majority of us would drive smaller fuel efficient vehicles if we could get them, but I'm guessing market research tells a different story. ;)

[Brucer]

Ford is planning to introduce 6 of its European-only models to the North American market next year. Apparently 4 of them are diesels.

GM is going to re-introduce the Camaro.

[Ron Wenrich]

And GM can't figure out why they're losing money.     They've sold the Hummer line to a company in India.  The Indian company didn't buy it so they could build Hummers and sell them to Indians.  They bought it for the brand name.  They plan to build small trucks, put the Hummer name on it and sell it back to the Americans.

I think GM is putting all its eggs into the Volt basket. 

[Tom]

Hmmmm   I guess the U.S. Army maintenance crews on the military Hummers will be calling India for parts and customer service, eh? :D

[StorminN]

I think GM is putting all its eggs into the Volt basket.

If so, this is a dumb move on their part... a plug-in hybrid with 40 miles all-electric range? Why not introduce an all-electric car with 150 mile range, like others are doing? (or like GM had in 1996, with their EV1) Heck, there are even companies converting cars to all-electric that will outperform the Volt...

Like this converted Saturn

For that matter, why not buy a used Prius today for about $10k and then bring it to one of the places that will upgrade the batteries to make it a plug-in hybrid? The conversions range from $5k to $12k. The more expensive ones have bigger battery packs, which allow you to drive further on all-electric, without the gasoline motor kicking on. So for $15k to $22k, you could be actually driving a plug-in hybrid car now, instead of waiting for the Volt in 2010.

Hymotion Prius PHEV conversion

Plug-in Prius wiki page

Hmmmm   I guess the U.S. Army maintenance crews on the military Hummers will be calling India for parts and customer service, eh? :D

Americans call India for customer service on nearly everything else, why would the Hummers be any different?  :D

-Norm.