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Norway Pine??

Started by Maineloggerkid, October 07, 2008, 05:13:45 PM

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Maineloggerkid

I have a 20 acre field that is  pretty good ground( not reall rocky, but not rock free either), on a gentle slope, and has good drainage.

I was talking to someone taday that said I should plant it to Norway Pine. My question is, how long does it take for Red (norway) Pine to mature to harvesting size. A lot of people sell tem around here for Telephone poles( big money). I was told that at the rate they grow around here, they could be harvested aroun the time I am 40 ( I am 18 now). That seems kinda short to me, but maybe.

Could someone tell me if it sounds like a good idea. If they could be harvested before I am too old, I like the idea of having a nest egg in my backyard.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

cheyenne

 Very smart thinking for someone at 18. Keep it up & good luck with your plans....Cheyenne
Home of the white buffalo

Clark

If you're on a good site you could do the first thinning by the time you're 40.  Telephone poles?  Not a chance.  When they go through a chunk of ground to buy telephone poles they become really picky really fast.  What may look like an acceptable pole to you will often have one or more small defects that they won't accept.

All that to say yes, you can grow norway pine for poles but I think you're looking at a minimum of 45 years of good management.  You'll have to keep 'em tight and time thinnings correctly but you'll get there.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Ron Scott

Ditto! to the above.

Depending upon soil and site conditions a commercial average may be 35 years for the first thinning for pulpwood and landscape materials, 50 years, second thinning again for pulpwood, posts, and small poles, 75 years poles and small sawtimber, and 100-120 years again for poles and small and mediurm sawtimber, and 150 years for final harvest of large sawtimber.

Then start over with the natural regenerated site or plant site again to red pine.

Study up some on red pine management and go for it.http://www.ncrs.fs.fed.us/fmg/rp/index.html
~Ron

Maineloggerkid

Thanks for the information. I really don't know that much about norway pine because I haven't delt with it very much, so I figured I bring it to the table here.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

John_valmet

is norway pine the same as norway spruce? sorry im from the UK i was just wondering if it is the same thing just with a diferent name. the mains species of timber we harvest here are (best selling timber) Sitka spruce, Norway Spruce, Scotch pine. Sitka spruce is a quick growin tree 30 to 40 years till it is clear felled it can grow 1.5m a year in good conditions. norway spruce grows about 1 meter a year generally reaching only 35-40 meters tall. scotch pine takes a bit longer as far as i know any way. plus it is horrible stuff bent and not great quality.(well atleast every tree ive seen was like that)

Ron Scott

No, they are different species. Norway Pine is our red pine,a popular commercial species here and Norway Spruce is a spuce often used here more so for Christmas trees, yard landscaping, windbreaks , wildlife cover etc. due to its form and texture.
~Ron

John_valmet

do you harvest norway spruce aswell or not? i find that we get very straight logs from it and they always seem heavier too.

Ron Scott

We don't harvest much if any Norway Spruce here in Lower Michigan. There just isn't much of a market for any spruce in this area.
~Ron

John_valmet

thats cool. To be fair Ron i dont know much about forestry in the states only what ive seen on that tv program Axmen. Which looks a bit dramatised if you know what i mean. i have worked with a skyline gang so i know all about that line of work. I didnt think there was much harvester and forwarder work out there.
On a different note my youngest brother who is 16 wants to move over to New hampshire when he is 19 not sure where abouts though.

stumper

We harvest norway spruce here in Maine.  Good tree but every stand I have been in has a very tight crown so it can be tough felling.  They do suffer from pine weavel damage like a white pine does so some plantation have some very poor stock.


SwampDonkey

Haven't planted it long enough here to harvest Norway spruce yet. We do have natural red pine though and 100's of acres of red pine plantations around here on abandoned farmland. As Ron says, expect close to 80 years for a good sized telephone pole. 35 year old pine here has just barely begun to self thin it's lower limbs. I know of 50 year old red pine that has never been tended and it's too thick and skinny to ever be any good even if it's thinned now. Some people around here think doing nothing is going to produce perfect trees.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Mooseherder

I don't know how old these are but if I would have to make an uneducated guess, it would be around 25-30 years old.  I'll have to cut one down to find out.  These have been tended to by the previous owner. I'm grateful for that.
I hope to get some lumber out of some in the future.  There is a guy a couple miles up the road that is building a Log Cabin with Red Pine and is also trying to market some more into that Industry because he has plenty of them.  He had Stacks of them Peeled and Drying for his first Cabin.   I'll stop in next summer for pics.  These border our Eastern side along route 1.




SwampDonkey

Just count the whorls, plus the top, no need to cut one. Red pine don't get internodal shoots like spruce and fir, so it's easy to age by the whorls.

Looking good, without scale to go by, I'd say your in the ball park. Looks like the owner trimmed up the limbs. That is helpful in red pine, not so good for fir and spruce because it usually introduces rot. Looks like he kept the saw out of the bark during trimming. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Mooseherder

Oh, it won't be cut until there is a need for Red Pine and a mill that is assembled. :D
That will be a while. :(

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Clark

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 30, 2008, 07:21:27 PM
Just count the whorls, plus the top, no need to cut one. Red pine don't get internodal shoots like spruce and fir, so it's easy to age by the whorls...


Count the whorls from DBH up to the top, add 8 and you'll be within 1 or 2 years of actual age, makes trying to decipher those lower reaches much more manageable. 

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Black_Bear

I'd do some sensitivity analysis before you plant. How much will the planting cost you, and what other alternatives do you have for the money? What will be your rate of return in 30 years? 40 years? 80 years?   

Pole stock is hard to find in the northeast, as someone mentioned earlier, the companies buying the stock tend to be finicky, but if you check the magazines, like Northern Logger, there are always companies advertising to buy your red pine.

Planting trees is cost intensive and the returns are not generally realized for at least 40-50 years in the slow growing northeast. Also, consider precommercial thinning, which is often another capital intensive project incorporated 20-40 years into the rotation. The northeast is blessed because regeneration tends to occur naturally, at little or no cost to the landowner, but rotations are generally longer, often exceeding 80 years. There have been many studies done with short rotation aspen (popple), especially in the upper midwest states (Minnesota comes to mind). Might want to look into these studies for yield and return. After all, aspen tends to grow like a weed in Maine after a significant disturbance, i.e. clearcut. 

Maineloggerkid

Good points, Black Bear.

Ya, at the rate poplar grows up here, I would almost be better of to plant the field to that.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

SwampDonkey

Well, there would be a sizeable crop every 40 years at least. Get some large tooth and it grows faster then quaking.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Maineloggerkid

If proplerly spaced, do you think that it would be wise, given market changes and such??
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

SwampDonkey

I can't see the aspen market disappearing. I'd be more worried about browse and girdling by the wildlife.  :-\ :-X
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Maineloggerkid

I have a little protection plan against such intruders. ;)

30-06 and a freezer. ;D
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

cheyenne

What time's din din....Cheyenne
Home of the white buffalo

Maineloggerkid

whenever you heat up the griddle. ;D
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

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