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Author Topic: Solar kiln  (Read 6806 times)

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Offline Mark M

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2003, 09:08:00 AM »
I think for safety purposes you would want to shut down both hot leads. Woodhaven is right about a switch in one leg stopping the fan, but it might not be very safe and I am sure it would not meet code.

Mark

Offline beenthere

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2003, 09:09:03 AM »
Jacar
Your electrician friend probably was saying "by the code, you cannot just switch one 110v leg". However, as woodhaven says, switching one leg on/off will certainly start and stop the fan. Just remember that doing it this way, leaves 110v live in the fan on the other leg just waiting to make ground contact, thus a source of a short circuit. A handy on/off switch ahead of the thermostat that can be off when working around the fan would be a good thing to have, and to use.
Maybe using a 220v relay that switches both legs on/off is another safe option.

(Now come on Mark, you say it so well in so few words too!)  ;D
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Offline woodhaven

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2003, 09:44:44 AM »
You are right, but he did not ask about a disconnect.
Only the thermostat!
And yes there should always be a disconnect as the first device in the line side. This should be there no matter what voltage you are using!!!!!! If you want to break both sides of the line and keep everybody happy then use a double pole t'stat even though it is not needed.
If you really want to have some fun.
Get a inspector a factory guy a good mechanic and the guy doing the work to discuss this same thing in 3 Phase. (Single Phaseing)
 :o
Richard

Offline beenthere

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2003, 10:25:12 AM »
You are right, woodhaven. I didn't mean to imply you were proposing something unsafe, but also didn't want to leave it "uncovered" or "unsaid" just in case. I gather Mark feels the same way.
Had a fire once in an oven that was an apparent result of only one leg being shut down by the thermostat, and something happened that the other leg just kept the oven element heating. Happened to have wood in that oven, drying it to "oven dry" for getting moisture contents. It went beyond the "oven dry" condition, to charcoal.   Interesting that it was listed as an "electrical fire" by the fire fighters, so they would not use water to put it out!  Now this was after the power to the oven was shut off with the disconnect. Go figure. The firefighters wanted to remove the fuel right away, so everytime the oven doors were opened to scoop out hot charcoal, a huge fireball erupted in their face. Any mention of "just leave the doors closed and let it cool off" were treated as "unwanted" suggestions. "We have to remove the fuel" from the fire".  Seemed to me that the doors closed already removed the oxygen component, and all they really had to do was let it cool down and then remove the cold fuel when in no danger of flare-ups.
After all this, the oven was converted to a thermostat that shut off both legs of the 220, not just one.
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Offline woodhaven

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2003, 11:14:33 AM »
Ok maybe I did get a little to defensive. I been doing this crap long enough to know not to asume something is known.
My Fault.
I do sometimes get ticked at what some of the inspectors ask for.
When a lot of factorys send stuff out the door that is a down right killer. I am also guilty of taken advantage of things sometime because I know its limiitations and not everyone does.

I Promise I do better.
Richard

Offline Mark M

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2003, 01:06:40 PM »
Yep, me neither, just wanted to make sure he knew about the other lead still being hot and that it could be a potential problem.

Mark

Offline Jacar

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2003, 11:08:55 AM »
OK Electricians,

First, I appreciate all of your input.

Here is what I did.  Coming off a breaker the I have # 12 wire going to the fans.  Remember these fans run on 220. On one of the hot wires( turned the breaker off first!) I connected the themostat from my attic fans in line.  So far it works.  Just have to get the temp select correct.  It is not very accurate.  

One concern I have is that the wires in the themostat are #16.  Is that ok?  

Thanks Jacar :)

Jack Watkins

Offline woodhaven

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2003, 04:09:43 PM »
You'll be Ok,
Just remember like the other guys were saying always turn off the breaker before doing any service on the fan circuit. Cause one leg will always be hot.The #16 may or may not be ok it depends on the amperage of the fan. Also don't let the 220 volt fool you. Your wire sizes will be smaller on 220 than 110 for the same amps because it's divided between 2 legs.
Richard

Offline Jacar

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2003, 06:06:14 PM »
Thanks,

After I posted I went and checked the amp draw on my fan motors and they draw 0.80 amps each.  The fans the thermostats were on drew 3.5 amps @110 volts. so that means there is less current flowing thru it now than the original application.

Jacar
Jack Watkins

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2003, 04:55:23 PM »
If the switches are not too expensive, why not put one in each hot leg??? They will both turn off, but, maybe not at the exact same time, though ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline woodhaven

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2003, 07:05:18 PM »
Somebody pull FDH's electrical license!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2003, 12:05:06 PM »
What'd I do??? What'd I do ??? I din't mean it, really !!!!!! :o :D :D :D :) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline shopteacher

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Re: Solar kiln
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2003, 02:03:24 PM »
Hi Jacar,
    You could put a close on rise adj. snap disc on each line. They can be adlusted to close at between 90 to 130 deg.  I thnk I would use one disc or a furnace fan-limit swith
and 24 volt transformer connected to a DP relay to turn both fans on and off using low voltage as the control. Same system your gas or oil furnace uses to control temp in your house.  You could probably go to a HVAC contractor and get some used controlls for a few bucks.  If not let me know and I can round you up some from my favorite junkyard.  
   Plan to build a kiln soon and glad to hear yours is doing well.  I have 20 double pane patio doors I plan to use for the solar collectors. Had 21 till the skid steer got to close.
   Welcome and good luck with your first charge.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.


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