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Author Topic: Sand Point Well?  (Read 24880 times)

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Offline jander3

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Sand Point Well?
« on: January 22, 2009, 12:29:20 PM »
Anyone have any experience on installing a sand-point well?  I need technical info on points, piping, couplings, and methods of driving the point (this will be a manual operation, I have a tractor with PTO and loader available).

I also need any info on how to best locate water.

My property is located at about 1000' located on a bluff about 50' above the lake.  The lake is fed by a stream.  There are a number of small ponds at the bluff elevation.  The entire area is mostly watershed.  Ideally, I would like the well up on the bluff; however, I may start out down near the stream or lake.   

The Indian reservation adjacent to my property, water witched the well location with copper wire, dropped a sand-point, and got good water at 14'.



Offline stumpy

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 12:53:26 PM »
OK, Here's what I know
1) you can only lift water up about 26 feet, so if the water table is deeper than that, it won't work
2) get a sand point that is self cleaning.  They are constructed in a way that periodically, you can disconnect the piping and turn the pipe going into the ground clockwise and it will clean off the screen.
3) Get yourself a slide hammer type pounder.  It is a pipe that is larger diameter than your well piping.  It has a handle on each side and a heavy weight plug welded to the top.  You slide it over your pipe and start sliding and pounding.
4) Ask around and see how deep other peoples wells are.  When you get close to that depth, drop a line down with a weight on it..  I used a thin cord and the last three feet or so was cloth and a weight on the end.  The cloth worked well to show the water.
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Offline Radar67

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 01:19:42 PM »
3) Get yourself a slide hammer type pounder.  It is a pipe that is larger diameter than your well piping.  It has a handle on each side and a heavy weight plug welded to the top.  You slide it over your pipe and start sliding and pounding.

Before you start pounding on that pipe, you need to put a cap on those threads to keep from damaging them.

Using a stainless steel point, there would be less chance of having to pull the pipe for corrosion.
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Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 01:21:11 PM »
Can you not jet it in?
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Offline Shotgun

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 02:38:57 PM »
Anyone have any exerience on installing a sandpoint well?  I need technical info on points, piping, couplings, and methods of driving the point (this will be a manual operation, I have a tractor with PTO and loader available).

I also need any info on how to best locate water.

The indian reservation adjacent to my property, water witched the well location with copper wire, dropped a sandpoint, and got good water at 14'.

I'd get an indian to help me if I were you.   :)  Sounds as though they know the technique.

Norm
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Offline stumpy

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 02:40:06 PM »
OOPS ::) I forgot to mention that part about the cap.  Very important.  Also, when you put that cap on, tighten it down with a pipe wrench. Otherwise it will come loose and ruin the threads.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 03:15:39 PM »
I was driving a sandpoint, back in 1973, and had no idea what I was doing.  The point was brass and expensive.  We were driving 2" pipe.  The pipe broke at a joint about 10' under ground.  we never found the other end. We were using the heavy couplings that were recommended and the heavy pipe as well.  Still, it broke where the threads ended on one piece.

We moved the well to another place and jetted down 10' of 2" PVC pipe.  It went so fast that the concern was stopping it from falling, not making it go down.

The PVC sandpoint we used had a tip on it made for jetting.  It was 1" pipe and we put it inside of the 2" that we had jetted.  At 21 feet, we hit a good stream.  We then pulled the 2"pipe out and let the hole close on the 1".  A shallow well pump provided me with over 15 gallons a minute. That was good enough for my puposes.
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Offline jander3

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 05:47:59 PM »
Tom,

What is jetted?  I haven't heard the term.   As you expereienced, I am most worried about spending the effort and then either missing water or breaking the silly pipe.


Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 06:05:38 PM »
I'm no expert for sure just a watcher but the guys that put in my irrigation well [6 points] used a 55 gallon barell of water and a jet pump. Took them maybe a hour to sink 6 points at varying depths of 12-25 feet.
I'm sure someone here can discribe it better than I.
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 06:19:20 PM »
 Jetting is simply putting water under pressure, in a pipe, and sticking it in the ground. The pressure boils the dirt up and the pipe sinks.

  We used to sink piling for boat docks and such, in the water, the same way.

  Have driven many a sand point. You DO need drive couplings, a drive cap, and 1-2 large pipe wrenches. The heavy object dropped on the pipe will jam the point in the ground, then, you MUST turn the pipe turn or more, before striking again, or, YOU WILL jam the point for good. Our driver was a piece of 2" pipe, with 40 # of lead in the top end, under the cap.

  Try THAT when your 12 years old, and, "under the gun". Had to stand on a box until I could reach from the ground. Dad and Uncle would just smile and egg me on.  >:( ::) ::) ;D ;D

  Sand points or "driven " wells, will work below 22', just use a "jet pump", not a piston pump. You will PUSH the water up the pipe, NOT pull it.

  Oh yeah, don't forget yer pitcher pump, if you are driving the point. You need that to check and see if you are "in the stream".  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Thehardway

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 09:13:26 AM »
I "witched" my own well location before having it rotary drilled.  Witching is scientific although believed to be hocus pocus by most.  It can be done in a variety of manners from copper wire to brass knobs and rods or sticks from peach, willow etc.  You may need to experiment and find what works best for you.  Some people are good at it and others have little success.

Those who have a photographic memory tend to be more successful than abstract thinkers.

I used two #12AWG copper wires. They were bent at right angles and each leg of equal length.  The short legs are held loosely in opposite hands  with the bend resting lightly on the index fingers between the first and second knuckle. You are now ready to locate anything you picture in your mind.  This is the important part.  If you do not have a picture of what you are seeking fixed in your mind your rods will jump off on all kinds of stuff.  Scrap metal, buried trash, load stone or sticks.  Be specific with the image.  If you are in a sand/gravel type area picture a large body of gravel under densely packed sand that has a huge pool of clean clear water contained in it. Picture it at the depth that you are looking for.  If you are in area of large rocks and ledges picture a deep fissure in the rock though which a bold clear spring of water is flowing.

Once you have the picture burned into your mind begin walking in a line, grid style near the location you would prefer to drill holding the rods pointing straight out from your body in your direction of travel and level but loose in the hand. As you near water the rods will cross over each other pointing in opposite directions.  If you find nothing move to another area. Once you have located three or four different spots see which one responds the strongest.  If it is a fissure you may be able to identify the direction in which it runs or the size of the body area.

Other ways of locating spots to drill are by examining flora and fauna.  Certain plants grow within certain distances of a body of water.  This differs by soil type and region so you will need to study what plants are in your specific area.

How well does this work?

In my case, the neighbors who had the driller just come and drill in the most convenient spot had to go anywhere from 275' to 630' before finding water and in many cases even then only found the minimum gpm required.  The spot I marked for the driller yielded water at 26', 125' and 280'.  I had more water than he could pump dry with his rig.  I had him bore a total of 300' to give me a storage reservoir.

A questions you may want to consider are what the purpose of the well is.  If it is for human drinking it is much different than for irrigating or cattle watering.  County codes, health dept, and EPA may have regulations concerning well drilling in your area.  If there is a lot of surface runoff, your well needs to be grouted and the ground around it built up to prevent contamination.

As a side note I have located all kinds of stuff with copper wires this way from HDPE gas lines to high voltage electric.

You may want to check the web for some info on DIY drilling.  There are different types of points and screens based on the type of material you will be going through.

My grandfather was an oil prospector.  He drilled many of the first oil wells in the US near Oil City, PA and then lost just about everything in the Great Depression.  He held several patents on drilling points and pumping equipment so prospecting and drilling goes back 2 generations for me.
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Offline ely

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 11:46:32 AM »
like hard-way says have someone witch the water for you. i really cant say i believe in it but i have seen it work several times.  i even find underground utilities at work when the locales don't show up.
my uncle did my well one day then sent me over to remove the marker he left. i marked it where he could not tell. then a week later he marked the same spot again.
had my well put there and like he said it was more water than they could pump down with the driller rig.

Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 12:28:04 PM »
Jander

When I'm looking for solutions with my sandpoint I try this link first, Mr. Duggan and his associates seem to have considerable knowledge when comes to wells of all types.
http://www.fdungan.com/well.htm
Bill

Offline jander3

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Re: Sand Point Well?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 08:04:00 PM »
Thanks; I appreciate all the info.  I plan to read up some more on water witching, then by spring (when things thaw out) I should be ready to try out the copper wires, find some water and drop the sand point.


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