Eco Terrorism

[timber tramp]

  Not sure this is the right board to post this in, I guess someone will let me know if it isn't.

  About 5 years ago I was falling timber in Central Oregon with another guy, we were working in teams, and there were metal rods driven into about every 9th or 10th tree. We also had a couple of guys show up and throw rocks at us while we were working, a little boot and knuckle therapy solved that. ;) Got the word murderer spray painted on my pickup too.
  Does this sort of stuff take place everywhere? Or was I just in the wrong place at the wrong time?
  I have noticed that with the exception of the rock throwers, these types don't seem to have enough "cajones" to be confrontational, most are probably cowards at heart IMO ;D.

                                                                            TT

[timberfaller390]

we keep most of the yuppies pretty well himmed up in Atlanta. Most of them don't venture too far off the pavement and those that do usally don't come back.

[SwampDonkey]

There is no big environmental movement here in the Maritimes. There are little groups of "earth muffin" types, as my grandmother would call them. They are usually university educated, but live from government grant to government grant, grow a little pot to support their minimum wage and a weedy garden that wouldn't feed a cow in hard times. Not enough gumption to do more than write little papers and post them on websites that many ignore or never heard of. Run bare foot through the sedges and have weddings around frog ponds. Usually label every weed known to man on the property, most in no danger from forestry activities. Usually take up residence on abandoned farms up for taxes when the last heir passes on, so not a lot of money  invested on the purchase and often makes poor farming or would have been put into production long ago. Usually, not from the region and figure it's their mission to save us from ourselves. But no real ability to organize or rally much support from the level headed folks that grew up around here, who generally ignore them and carry on with business as usual and living out their lives.  

Them types? :D :D

[timberfaller390]

SD sounds like you have met some of our Atlanta yuppies.

[thompsontimber]

We've got some of those types here in western NC...seems they are pretty easy to identify wherever they might be, as SD has described ours perfectly!  They have organized a couple of groups round here and pick up some local support in the past when trying to keep out a new chip mill or rock quarry, but they do lack the funding and the common sense to muck things up too much or gain any real respect.  They do tend to be educated, but its hard to tell in what.  They are convinced that the education they received made them certified experts in everything though, so all should heed their advice.  We even had a local group that annually would hold an event to "teach foresters" how to conduct sound forest management.  I'm not kiddin.  We have had some of the eco terrorist events too however, with a lot of damage being done to the chip mill that was fought so hard to keep out.  There was also a crew that used to cut for me some that did a pine thinning job on a tract owned by an equestrian center.  The patrons were not happy to see logging going on, and some folks decided to spray paint their displeasure on machines, cut wires, fill fuel tanks with foreign substances, etc.  They really did a lot of damage.

[thecfarm]

A few years back Mt Blue State Park steered things up.Seems like Irving had parcel of land,I think Irving and have no idea on acres,Irving would give it to the state but wanted the logging rights on it in so many years.Irving started cutting on it,now this is a state park.People had a fit about it.I never went and saw the work,but I suppose it was done a clean as possible,since everyone was watching and complaining about it.The guys cutting had a skidder burned up on them that I am aware of and other problems too.Was a good deal for both sides.The state got a good chunk of land and Irving did not have to pay taxes on it for 20-30 years.
I have had people come up to me at work and say I should not cut wood.But than have seen them take brand new cardboard and lay it on a pallet when we should use old cardboard.  :  I did not go over and call that person on it either.  :D Some have no idea about wood products at all.Like I say to them when you don't live in a stick built house,or have wood furniture,use paper,toilet paper etc,than you can talk to me about not cutting wood.

[Kodiakmac]

To add to SwampDonkey's observations...

In Ontario there is no need for Eco-terrorism.  The subsidized NGOs have not only the ear of government, but are pulling the puppet strings.  One coalition of these parasites actually drafted  Ontario's Endangered Species Act - a piece of legislation that will soon put ALL of Ontario's woodlands in the 'protected' category.  They brag about it on their website.

The legislation empowers a Star Chamber of appointees from these various NGOs to arbitrarily designate (a) what species need protection, and, (b) any area as 'species habitat' (includes potential habitat).  The list of species is as long as Bunyan's arm, and it is quite apparent that a valid case could be made that all of rural Ontario is 'habitat' for at lest one of the listed flora or fauna.

But, it's only happening because we have a gutless, rural population.  Our farm organizations are iretrievably compromised because they depend on government largesse for their existence.  Unfortunately, all too large a percentage of our rural population wouldn't have much of a thought or care if a fleur-de-lys or a hammer and sickle flew from our parliament. 

Now I'm mad...time to cut something down!

 

The schedules that go with this incredible

[timber tramp]

Guess this is'nt just a West Coast phenomenon (sp?) We do seem to get a bunch of  the "earth muffins" though. I once called a guy that had "tree sitters" on one of his jobs, and volunteered to come out and drop that tree, all at my own expense. In hind sight I'm glad he turned down my offer, as the news crews were there and that would have taken out the deniability. :D :D                                    TT

[wdncno]

While I have to disagree with environmental terrorism as an end to a means;  dismissing some group as a bunch of idiots just because their opinions differ from yours is not much better. I have a small milling operation and have been working with wood for years.  I probably cut about 50,000 ft of lumber a year and go to the bush to buy from local loggers.  Some are respectful of the land, but many refuse to even attempt to harvest trees in a sustainable manner, or leave the bush anything other than an environmental disaster.  One day I went into a neighboring property to see about getting a load of ash logs and when the feller stopped cutting for lunch, he plunged his saw through a perfect 8" hard maple at waste height, I suppose so he could find it when he came back.  I have heard loggers bragging about how they raped this bush or another. Other areas are hit so hard that the only thing that will grow back is poplar and balsam for the next fifty years.  Some of what the environmentalists are saying is well thought and true.  Change is inevitable, that's just evolution, and if we don't change- there will be no jobs in this industry for our children.  Maybe we should look at why the best logs are being shipped somewhere else, at low prices and having all the value added somewhere else, and then sold back to us, while our kids are working at Macjobs for peanuts.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Don't have to many of dem types around here. Its too cold and snowy for them to go hug trees. a

[thompsontimber]

I dunno, there are some around here that don't seem to mind the elements.  We were having to do some inventory work in the GSM National Park in TN back when I was in school and it was awfully cold.  There was about 6 inches of snow on the ground and the wind was really whippin.  It was about 12 degrees but the windchill was about 20 below.  Down here, that is end of the world cold.  We were all bundled up and miserable, and I was convinced at several points that my hands were going to fall off, and had to check often to make sure they were still there as feeling had long since left.  Just as we are wrapping up and heading back to the vans, we see an amazing sight.  There are 5 full blown yuppies with their camping gear strapped to their backs...they are wearing hiking boots and shorts.  yes, shorts.  And even though it was incredibly cold out, you could still smell their BO.  They apparantly are allergic to hygiene.  Some of my classmates couldn't help but ask them what on earth they were doing hiking around in this weather.  Said they were heading for a 5 night camping stay up the mountain.  I knew then that my opinions of that types' underlying intelligence had been confirmed. 

[timber tramp]

Wdncno- I personally have no issue with someone who disagrees with my opinions, I do however have an issue with some of the tactics employed by more radical members of these groups.
  I agree that some loggers do not do much for promoting healthy and/or sustainable forestry, however it is necessary to point out that most (including myself) do.
  How many acres of timber havesting equal the enviromental impact of setting fire to one log truck? Or one peice of logging equipment?
  On a more personal note, what good is it doing the enviroment to graffiti my truck? This is an act of vandalism, not some righteous gesture to further a cause. >:(
  I also hope their are opportunities for our children in the woods, although I encourage my own kids to find less physically demanding career paths.          TT


                                                                         

[wdncno]

Timbertramp- I agree Perhaps both sides should try a walk in the other's shoes.

[chevytaHOE5674]

There was about 6 inches of snow on the ground and the wind was really whippin.  It was about 12 degrees but the windchill was about 20 below. 

That is shorts and hiking boot weather there. When the high is -5* and windchills in the -40's and snow about 4-5 foot deep that's when winter sets in, and those types retreat home.

I agree there are many that perform non "sustainable" (whatever your definition of that is) harvesting, but leave them for regulation and angry landowners to deal with. Don't burn peoples equipment and vandalized their stuff because you disagree with the actions. You don't see loggers burning down "tree huggers" houses and toyota prius's do you???

[Clark]

...About 5 years ago I was falling timber in Central Oregon...

Let me guess, somewhere near Eugene?

I never really met any of these types when I lived in the midwest but now that I live in one of the more productive timber producing regions in the world, I see these types often enough.  Not in person but on the news, street corners, "legalize" rallies, etc.  It always amazes me how the richer a place (which is usually tied to some natural feature which is very productive), the more of the types you get that haven't really spent much time outside yet want to protect it all.

Clark

[Kodiakmac]

I've got more use for a hippy-dippy tree-hugger than I do for one of those gov't subsidized NGO parasites.  As a wise man once said: "The danger lies where a man's preoccupation becomes his occupation." Idealism gets cast aside by opportunism.

[shinnlinger]

It just so happens that I used to live in Eugene and would run into  treehuggers and anarchists on a regular basis.  SOme of these guys were pretty hardcore.  They built a fort up at some pending old growth harvest site and would go up and man it periodicaly (Others were there all the time and after a year or two they cut was canceled),  One guy who I knew peripherally had to disapear for a while after some equipment was burned and I suspected he had something to do with it.

I agree that it is more than obnoxious (it's illegal!!!) to burn a guys skidder or wreck his equipment.  I mean that is just plain wastefull and polluting (think of all the crap that goes in the air when a skidder burns) and probably only hurts a guy struggling from paycheck to paycheck rather than the big wigs that negotiated the sale.

On the other hand, I can see the point that we should protect the last of the old growth.  My thinking is if you cut them all in the next 5 years they would all be gone and the loggers and mills that specilaize in old growth will be up the creek at that point so why not put them up the creek now and preserve what is left?

The good news was that the sense I got from most of the loggers I met was they cared very deeply about the forest and were quite interested in harvesting sustainably so that their kids could maybe log someday.  Some one who makes $$$ in the forests out there may well correct me, but the way I understood Oregon logging regulations, was that they were a good compromise.  The logging could be sustainable AND profitable. Stuff likes to grow in western Oregon!!!

As far as tree sitters on an approved harvest, I would go up and make a big show of it with my saw and then only girdle the tree and move on letting the sitters know the tree was now dead and they could come down when they wanted to.

[Tom]

The problem with the conserve-the-tree philosophy is that trees have a lifetime the same as humans.  It's like liking Uncle George so much that you lock him up in a room so that he won't get hurt and expect him to be there for the rest of your life, so that your great grandchildren can appreciate him and listen to his good stories.

While no one that I know of wants to cut tree just for the sake of cutting trees (even loggers have an appreciation for the aesthetics of a tree), there comes a time when lack of attention could end up killing the forest too.

We thought that inhibiting wildfire was proper management until cities were threatened.  Now we find that it is needed and is actually a natural management tool.

What is criminal about the tack of the eco-terrorists is that they are militant and distructful and some are even murderous.  I give none of them any quarter.  They are preventing someone from using their natural resouces.  It's like someone coming into your house and destroying your bed because they think you are sleeping too much.

I have no respect for them and fail to see their side anymore than I see the side of a burglar who steals things from my house or takes my car.  That he lost his job is no excuse, that was MY stuff.

These Vandals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[Phorester]

Ever been only one instance of eco-terrorism in my two county work area.  A few years ago a family raised a big stink about their neighbor logging on his property.  Interesting that the complainers lived on a 5 acre lot alongside other 5 acre lots that had been carved out of a multi-hundred forested property years before.  Talk about deforestation.  :  They were the last lot in the line, next to a 650 acre property being logged. 

The logger found wires cut on his skidder, smashed headlights, etc.  Found that several dozen trees had been spiked with  6" long deck nails.  Found it out the hard way when they had to replace 2 $1,500 band saw blades on their mill before they realized what had happened.  Bought a metal detector and ferreted out the other spiked trees before cutting them. 

Worst though was when the brake lines were punctured on their loaded tractor-trailer rig one night.  The driver pulled out early the next morning to take it to their mill, got partway down the very long steep road leading down to a 4 lane highway, realized he was losing brakes, and put it in the ditch.  Not hurt, little damage to the truck.  This road T'd into the 4 lane highway.  If the brakes had not failed until further down this road he would have gone across 4 lanes of early morning commuters with a loaded logging truck.

Suspect was the teenage boy who lived in the house - interesting that al the spiked trees were in an area that radiated out from his house - but could never prove it of course.

[Tom]

There is quite a bit of it that goes unreported.  I was sawing for the owner of a logging company in Folkston, Ga. and went to work one morning to find that a brand-new loader had been used to beat a "setout" truck to bits and turn a skidder over.  The skidder, a relatively new one, was then set on fire.  The loader's boom was bent and used to turn the loader over as well.

I was in the yard when they brought it all back in.  Law Enforcement was did not seem to be very interested in investigating the incident.  Insurance paid but didn't cover replacement.

Vandalism like that isn't as uncommon as one would think.

[Paul_H]

It's like liking Uncle George so much that you lock him up in a room so that he won't get hurt and expect him to be there for the rest of your life, so that your great grandchildren can appreciate him and listen to his good stories.

Tom,here is Vancouver's poor old Uncle(please let me die) George







This link tells part of the story and if you look in the image gallery you'll see more pics of the propping.

Cedar Snag

Another one with pics


It's been dead for eons and they are spending thousands of dollars to prop this long dead tree upright where it can again be worshipped.
What does it tell you about BC,eh?

[shinnlinger]

What strikes me is  the PASSION that both the loggers and the "tree Huggers" have for the same thing, the forest.  You get mostly the logging side on this site, that is that most here love being and working in the woods, and most of the time, most loggers do the right thing and harvest sustainable.(conservation)  The few loggers that make a mess of it give ammunition to the tree huggers who unfairly blame all loggers.  

The tree huggers also really love being in the woods but they really do feel that a tree has as much right to live as you or I and should exist in their own right(preservation) some take this to the extreme and destroy equipment and spike trees here again giving ammunition to the loggers who paint all tree huggers as eco-terrorists.

[Tom]

It looks to me like it would be safer and cheaper to just build a museum around the tree.  Then they could have thousands of pictures of people who enjoyed the tree and books of stories and even sell stuff to take care of the tree.  Just think of all the thousands of people who would visit it every year and donate a dollar. :P ;D

[timberfaller390]

The funny thing is that they are too dense to understand that burning equipment and spiking trees will eventually kill the very trees they are so fanatical about protecting. Wade Black did a song called Old growth timber that went "Old groth timber is something to remember but it all oughta be cut down. It's gonna stand there and rot in your parking lot while your building up your new town." And another one called "I'm gonna be a snag someday" which was the story of an old douglas fir that was "saved" from the saw only to become a dead half rotten snag.

[thompsontimber]

Of course there are self proclaimed environmentalists that go to extremes to make their points and a small number of the preservationists stoop to the level of eco terrorism.  Of course there are some loggers that are destructive to the land and don't care about anything but cut and run and harvesting methods and high grading timber stands.  It is my firm belief however that the vast majority of loggers and forestry professionals are in fact true environmentalists at the highest level and in its purest form.  The fact is, the people that depend on our forests for their livlihood do indeed love the forests.  We have a passion as strong as any on the other side of the fence.  We do attempt to take care of the land and to promote sustainable forestry practices.  We strive to educate landowners and ensure a future of healthy forests for our children and grandchildren to enjoy for all their multiple uses.  I don't doubt the intense passion of those on the other side either, nor do I condemn their intentions (not talking about eco terrorists, I don't respect that approach from anyone for any purpose).  What I'm referring to is the "environmental" movement that too often shapes our policies and certainly shapes public opinion.  Violence and vandalism happen here, but much more prevalent is the loud voice of groups of educated people with funding that send a messege to the public regarding how our forests should be cared for and its taken as fact.  The sad thing is that the people who are trained to manage our forest resources rarely get their voices heard by the public at large.  Sound forest management is thrown out the door on federal lands because it isn't always popular, has lots of opposition from those with good intentions,and judges with no formal forestry education make management decisions instead of the foresters.  We don't have a lot of the federal timber issues here, but we face special interest groups promoting their agendas and undermining forestry professionals with their own ideology.  No matter how passionate they are or how well meaning, their opinions and personal preferences shouldn't trump the science and doing what is right.  Unfortunately, "logging is bad" still resonates with the public at large.