Ax Men makes me want to puke

Ron Scott · March 04, 2009, 07:04:43 PM

Not very well thought out; a good comedy. I was wondering if it was for real. ;)

spencerhenry · March 04, 2009, 07:53:13 PM

ax men sure beats the hell out of american loggers.

there is some staged stuff on the show, but just because some incident was staged doesnt mean that it didnt happen when the camera wasnt running. it seems to me that the show is not intended to be a documentary, but rather entertainment based in reality. i am sure some of the guys on the show are real idiots, others are far from it. think about J browning, i would bet he owns more equipment, employs more people, and makes more money than ANYONE that posts on this forum. he obviously knows what it takes to run a business and be successful. hell, they all do except for maybe the aqua logger.
i have been ridiculed on this site before for some of my posts. but here i go again. i make my living felling, limbing, and skidding. i dont wear chaps, i dont own a hard hat, i cuss as bad as most of the guys on the show, i have been known to throw a fit now and then, but i have been in business for myself for 15 years and i have done very well.
like someone else said, if you don like the show, dont watch it.

woodhick · March 04, 2009, 11:11:49 PM

I think a lot of the drama is staged to make a good show but I will continue to watch it as there nothing else on that intersts me.

Chico · March 05, 2009, 02:44:56 AM

I saw it once that was quite enough for me Loggers my butt
Chico :D

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 03:19:05 AM

With that kind of statement I really doubt you watched it. There is no question these men are loggers. Weather you favor the way they are portrayed by a show-biz production company or not is one thing, but to question the fact of what they do for a living is valid, is ridiculing and off base.

Chico · March 05, 2009, 04:18:39 AM

I know many loggers and what I was making my statement about was the needless chances they were taking with human life I've ran very small mills very large I've had men get killed while working for me I've had them lose arms Legs but not one of them was because of playing games one death was a freak accident the other was a case of another supervisor cranking a machine before it was ready and had all the safety measures on I had to go to both families and explain why and what happen Thats why I am a safety nut I agree it may be entertaining but it's also degrading IMO When that man is screaming at them he's taking their mind off what their doing which is very dangerous Theres a time to have a prayer meeting with a man but right in the middle of everything an in front of all the rest of the crew 's not it
JMO
Chico

SwampDonkey · March 05, 2009, 06:10:30 AM

If I had a choice to watch "ax men" versus "survivor" I would definitely go "ax men". It's my hope that eventually they will leave the PNW and migrate to other areas of the country. Those guys are real, but a little racey at times. It's still hard to grasp all the tarzan type run'n and jump'n about. Hard on the body as I seen one old guy last season developed bad knees (that's for real). Climb those mountains with heavy gear and constant rain and you'll find out, on top of all the jumping. The language and communication is quite real to me. I'm just commenting on the couple of taped episodes I saw last season. I can't get History Channel here.

Chico · March 05, 2009, 06:54:50 AM

I have no doubt those guys are real loggers and I know the wear and tear but being used to that they might have probs in other styles of logging as the swamp loggers would have if they were out of their element I just think that they trivialize what they do and overemphasize some the antics Loggings not for everyone I did my share in the Tn Mts and the WV mts and la amiss ans Al swamps and they all have their challenges you know they were using cable lines in the late 1800s in the swamps pf Al Fla Miss and La pulling out cypress so there are some norms
Chico

Dan_Marino · March 05, 2009, 08:07:32 AM

One of my posts was deleted becasue it was considered a swipe at a person. I didnt think it was anymore of a swipe at him as his was at me. I stated that the way things are depicted for logging in the show makes me want to puke. Its sad that a few million people form opinions about me and the rest of the logging world based on the fake drama of that show.

I like some things about the show but I get sick when I see things being over dramatized. this makes people think this is the norm for every logging operation in the U.S.

question - do the crews get paid for filming?

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 10:00:16 AM

The Ax men is not a documentary. It's not a how-to-do-it guide. Its purely an entertainment production based on reality. The whole premise of the show is how dangerous logging is. They probably have thousands of hours of tape that they squeeze the excitement out of. Those few sequences are used to create the drama for the show.

What amazes me is how one can be so insecure in what he does, that he feels that this type of show is undermining his profession. If that was so, we would not be typing here now because the Professor on Gilligan's island surly made science and technology look so ridiculous as he could make any type of invention out of bamboo and coconuts but he couldn't build a raft.

Its a T.V. show. Ya'll should try to separate that from reality.

Chico · March 05, 2009, 10:38:46 AM

I myself can diferentiate the diff and I think they staement isuncalled for I never heard anyone say it was a documentary I did hear sev including myself say that it could influence the uninformed public. That was my main complaint The thing is most of the "dangers " they show are brought on by themselves or lends itself to that thought imo After all these are just opinions and we know what they say about them ;DI've never been insecure about anything .Anything I;ve wanted to or started out to do I've done it Done many things been many places that a lot of people only dream about would like to get to a few more Gilligans Island was a comedy this is supposed to be an informative show showing real life loggers doing real work what do they say not reality Actuality JMO
Chico

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 10:41:43 AM

There ya go. I wasn't even referring to your post but you thought I was.

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 10:48:56 AM

Lets say they were going to make a show called the portable bandsaw man.

They could film for weeks and not get much of anything new from logs going on and boards coming off. However in that time someone flips a log over the back stops. Another time you saw into them, another time you forget to put the legs down on the back end of the mill, and while moving the head to the other end the tongue flies up in the air. Maybe you drop a cant on your finger and blow it open. Maybe you walk around the end of the mill and catch your leg on the hitch tearing a gash in your jeans and your leg.

Now they compile the episode. Guess what makes the cut? We all know that it ain't that every day. It might generate interest though in someone that knows nothing. They might seek to find out what kind of people go out and saw lumber and subject themselves to this sort of comic carnage. Then they find out that its not what it seems, its actually just a job filled with its related pitfalls.

Papa1stuff · March 05, 2009, 11:28:35 AM

Jeff-Have you done all those things?

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 11:40:26 AM

Absolutely.

So has most everyone else. Those are the things you remember. You might remember a day that you had that was perfect, but what you remember is the outcome, not the normal events that got you there.

I was thinking about some of my times in the woods. I spent a couple summers out of the mill and in the woods crews when our lumber markets were quite poor, but we could still sell pulp. As I think back, the only things I recall are the "events". An event was not typically a good thing. In fact, hardly ever. Running to the woods, jumping out of the skidder, dragging out the mainline, hooking chokers, winching in, haul to the landing, jump out, unhook, go for another skid. When things are going right, its absolutely forgettable and boring. You don't find a place for it in your mind. I do remember vividly the things I learned that I did wrong when I started working out there. The type of things that would get recorded for ever if someone were filming.

If you take the first episode of Axmen this season as an example where doowop about gets his leg taken off after hitting a spring pole with a saw. That was sure a learning experience for him. He survived it. Either he learned from it, or the next time he might be dead. The show left me with that message. If you just saw him walking and limbing, the everyday stuff. So what.

When they forgot to unhook the one tree on the landing and it bulleted over the side of the hill. That happens. You can bank on it. !00 to one it didnt happen as portrayed on the show. It was probably very much dramatized to show a point. If you didnt add the hollering and edit back in the running out of the way, that probably never happened, and only saw the log start off on a return visit down the mountain, then stop and come back up, even the armchair logger probably would not have said a word and the general public wouldn't have a clue that it was something that could be very dangerous.

SamB · March 05, 2009, 12:07:19 PM

Dan and Chico, I'm in your corner on this subject, that's why I'm not a fan of reality TV. Sure they are editing the tape to produce the most entertaining product for the audience and most of the audience probably knows that. IMO most of the audience probably has an interest in the show because it some how relates to their livelihood and or interests. Then you'll have those that are watching hoping to see something like is in a Rambo movie. My problem with the program is that you have one of the most dangerous industries in the USA according to OSHA being put on display in a way that is not going to gain it any public support. I want to see the logging/timber industry prosper not be subject to further government regulation.
Safety in the work place IMO has as much to do with attitude toward being safe as being cya "safety certified". Production is as important as safety training and attitude is as important to being safe as is training. There's been a lot of bad attitude in the work place displayed in the episodes I've seen of Axmen. Maybe a disclaimer saying this program has been edited to make it entertaining and is not a representation of the entire logging/timber industry would be appropriate, if it's there I've not seen it. I know more loggers that don't fit the stereotype of the guys in Axmen than do.
I'm not trying to belittle any sponsor of the FF or any individual simply stating my opinion.

Dan_Marino · March 05, 2009, 12:40:07 PM

Quote from: Jeff on March 05, 2009, 10:00:16 AM
The Ax men is not a documentary. It's not a how-to-do-it guide. Its purely an entertainment production based on reality. The whole premise of the show is how dangerous logging is. They probably have thousands of hours of tape that they squeeze the excitement out of. Those few sequences are used to create the drama for the show.

What amazes me is how one can be so insecure in what he does, that he feels that this type of show is undermining his profession. If that was so, we would not be typing here now because the Professor on Gilligan's island surly made science and technology look so ridiculous as he could make any type of invention out of bamboo and coconuts but he couldn't build a raft.

Its a T.V. show. Ya'll should try to separate that from reality.

Insecure? Are you saying this to bait me up?

Evidently you havent tried to deal with Joe Q public in buying timber over the last few years. Its becoming harder and harder to buy timber because of situations exactly like this show. There are lies being spread every day by the media, by our shcools and by our leaders of this country about how bad logging is. My child comes home from the second grade and he tells me his teacher scolded him for saying its ok to cut trees! I went in for a conference and she got enlightened why its ok and why she was wrong. What was she basing her opinion on? - her words "what she saw on tv"!!

Insecure? Log prices are down and I have 300,000 worth of equipment to pay for. How can I do it? By securing work. Anytime that there is something negative portrayed about logging it makes me sick to my stomach because I know its another hurdle I must cross.

You scolded me for a so called swipe and then you call me insecure...talk about a swipe.

Paul_H · March 05, 2009, 01:36:39 PM

It was me that quietly mentioned the swipe not Jeff and I was going to leave it at that but seeing you brought it up,I think even the title of the thread is over the top.Can a show really bring you to the point of vomiting?Are you that tightly wound that a tv show could be the final straw that causes an ulcer? :D

I was hoping you would have responded to the IM that I sent to you with the same respect that it was given.

stumpy · March 05, 2009, 01:40:40 PM

The bottom line is, this is a Reality TV show. It is rare to find any show on TV, or anything from Hollywood, that is completely accurate and doesn't have some dramatization in it. Why even the documentaries have editing to show more of the "interesting" stuff. Some are even blatantly biased to the makers point of view. I for one, enjoy all of the logging shows. I understand the need for sensationalism. I accept the fact that some of it's staged. I do notice that most of the crazy stuff is done by the younger people, just like real life.

Watch the shows or don't watch them. Either way, don't put too much weight on them. I don't believe they have that much influence as to change the publics view. One of the problems with todays society is that everything that offends someone becomes an issue or a cause. Relax, enjoy or tune it out. 8) 8)

Jeff · March 05, 2009, 02:05:35 PM

I'll just quietly say again, Its a T.V. show. People that get so excited over a T.V. show, or a simple conversation have more in their lives to worry about. I know I do.

Chico · March 05, 2009, 04:21:13 PM

I just say there's a big diff between excited and concerned ;)
Chico
I'll bow out of this debate now ;D

Dan_Marino · March 06, 2009, 07:37:09 AM

Guys, I said it up there in another post - untill you deal with landowners or the public in todays climate I wouldnt expect you to understand how it makes me sick.

If you could be in my shoes for a few months and see the problems I face because someone has lied about what logging really is then you could appreciate what I am saying.

Does it not concern you about what the teacher said to my son?

Stumpy - I am not the common member of "todays society" I am not a liberal.

Corley5 · March 06, 2009, 08:23:50 AM

There's nothing pretty about logging. You'd rather the show was sugar coated by picturing a bunch of bunny hugging loggers who shut off their saws to pet Bambi at sometime during the day, feed peanuts to the squirrels at lunch and make the job look like a manicured park when they're done. That would be a lie :

What do you find so offensive other than the bad acting? The only things I saw last season that concerned me were when Melvin's shovel sprung a major hydraulic leak. I hope an attempt was made to clean that up. Dragging the skidder up the mountainside with the dozer in a later episode appeared to be pretty hard on the terrrain and jammer logging in the fog also concerned me

I've dealt with the public here in N. Mi and if people have trees and would like to turn them into cash they want them cut. Many like their trees just the way they are and don't want them cut. It's their property. Others tell me about the logging shows they've seen on the History and Discovery Channels and wonder if I've watched them. They like them too.

ErikC · March 06, 2009, 10:32:38 AM

One little bit of good may be that many people have forgotten wood comes from trees, like they have forgotten beef comes from cows. This show does make it clear logging is still alive, and that is where wood comes from. That part of the show, at least, is realistic in every way.

Paul_H · March 06, 2009, 10:40:49 AM

Quote from: Dan_Marino on March 06, 2009, 07:37:09 AM
If you could be in my shoes for a few months and see the problems I face because someone has lied about what logging really is then you could appreciate what I am saying.

Does it not concern you about what the teacher said to my son?

I was in your shoes for three decades and the heat really got turned up here by the enviromental groups beginning in the early 1990's here but the loggers across the line in the Pacific NW took a worst beating before that so the boys on Axemen know what anti logging sentiment can do.
We've been roadblocked and hassled and sabotaged by the public and government to the point where we were over regulated.What happened in my experience was the logging revenues in the province funded government which in turn hired more staff to regulate and for a short period of time over regulated.That and the softwood lumber tariffs and low log prices caused a major slow down in the industry which cut government revenues and finally regulation when the forest district lost a third of their staff and finally another third as things got worse.
In the last two years,the only member of the Ministry of Forests staff I saw out in the woods(and I was out there most every day) was the check scaler in the dry sort.Fifteen years ago we could expect a visit at least once a week by a resource officer.

My oldest daughter came home in grade one(1992) with a anti logging opinion from her teacher.I set up a meeting with the principal and let him know my concerns with the assault on my profession and asked if I could arrange for equal time with the classroom from a member of the BCForest Service or a RPF.He spoke to the teacher and she called me and apologised and we moved on.
Don't sweat the things you can't change or you'll be miserable.I learned that the hard way and the cost was dear.