Shingle Mill Video

[jason.weir]

I promised that I'd post a video of my shingle mill running.

Well yesterday I saw'd a couple square and got the wife to take a video while providing some comment.

Here you go..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu2Ezj__hLE

-Jason

[Jeff]

Awesome!  If I had that for a summer up on my property I could make all my siding and roofing for the house I want to build and utilize a bunch of the wind thrown and leaning cedars that would be perfect for shingles.

[Paul_H]

Thanks Jason.

That is a fine machine  8)

[Bill_G]

Jason,

Great video. How many horsepower are you running? I've been running my chase shingle mill on an old John Deere LA 2 cylinder not quite enough power.

[jason.weir]

Bill,

My JD is a 2008 3120 - the 30hp is plenty.

You do hear it grunt just a little on anything over 12" but I don't think the rpm drops significantly.

-J

[Bill_G]

What are you sawing? Pine or Cedar?

[STUMPKICKER]

Great video Jason.  8) 8) Nice lookin' set-up. Think it'd be lil' better if you had your cedar blocks on the other side, save you from steppin' over pto. shaft. Remember- safety first.  ;)Have fun and enjoy.  

[jason.weir]

What are you sawing? Pine or Cedar?

Pine Bill not a whole lot of cedar in this area.

-J

[jason.weir]

Great video Jason.  8) 8) Nice lookin' set-up. Think it'd be lil' better if you had your cedar blocks on the other side, save you from steppin' over pto. shaft. Remember- safety first.  ;)Have fun and enjoy.  

I know, I should know better - I'm going to get a gearbox and move the tractor to the back side..

-J

[Bill_G]

Same here in Warner, just went to Maine Thursday to get a few Cedar logs to work on a canoe.

[jason.weir]

Here are the results..





-J

[Bill_G]

Do you have trouble with mold when you bundle the Pine green?

[jason.weir]

A little Bill but I try to store them where they get a breeze but no sun..

If I don't bundle them they curl and split something terrible.

-J

[Bill_G]

That's what has kept me from sawing many. I would dip the bundles if you could get a fungicide that was not full of poison. I've also thought about running some logs through the debarker and letting them dry some before sawing. I don't know if that would work or not. Thats why cedar works so nice, just non close by.

[jason.weir]

Bill,

On a nice dry day the shingles will dry to the touch very quickly (just a few minutes if the conditions are right)

I would bet if you let them dry to the touch before you bundled them most of the mold problem would go away.

One other thing - this pine has been down and cut since last fall - not much pitch but still very wet - I wounder what difference that might make.

What do you have for a shingle saw?

-J

[Bill_G]

It looks just like yours, but mine is an old Chase mill instead of Lane. I think the patent date is 1892. I think your right about them drying fairly quick.

[sgschwend]

I enjoyed watching that old machine work, what a great design.

I have two suggestions:
1. there is too much stuff moving to take a chance of reaching to the saw,  always let the shingles fall into the bucket.
2.  No loose clothing, loose clothing in one of the most common causes for industrial accident.  

I read that you will move the drive shaft, any chance for a brake?

[jason.weir]

It looks just like yours, but mine is an old Chase mill instead of Lane. I think the patent date is 1892.

Bill,

The Lane and Chase mills are almost identical, the only exception being the carriage drive.  I believe one of them copied the other - they are way too close.

I read that you will move the drive shaft, any chance for a brake?

I'd like to have a brake or at least a remote pto shut off.  The new tractor has a electronic pto switch so a cable and pulley wont work.  We'll see what I can come up with..

-J

[beenthere]

Great video. Your wife does a good job of getting the angles and the entire process.

Thanks

[jason.weir]

Great video. Your wife does a good job of getting the angles and the entire process.

Thanks - I'll be sure to pass on the praise..

-J

[Dave Shepard]

Are you sawing just heartwood? The heartwood of white pine is actually fairly rot resistant, if it is in a condition where it is not continuously wet.

[jason.weir]

Nope Dave I'm sawing them straight through.

I'm not sure I've ever looked at a pine log to notice how much is sap wood and how much is heart or does it vary greatly per log?

Might be worth separating them out and keeping the sap wood for door shims..

-J

[Bill_G]

That's a thought, I guess you could edge off the sapwood on the blocks that don't have much.

[GF]

Enjoyed the video that was really neat.

Gary

[WH_Conley]

I WANT ONE, I WANT ONE.

An older neighbor of mine started talking about shingles one day, said he saw a "shingle saw" setting in a barn, setting there for years, not used. Probably haul it for junk.

He can't remember where.

[bandmiller2]

Good show Jason,the blade is cutting well and the new tractor has enough moxie.I don't think their is a more vicious machine than a shingle ,mill requires complete attention.A shingle mill keys in nice with  logging,you cut your logs out of the pine and their is usally 16" between the nodes at the top of the tree for shingle blocks.Pine makes a decent shingle but should be stained,they wont weather pretty like cedar.Their is not much worse than shingle blocks that are freash dripping pitch,gums up everything,I like to let the pitch turn white.If you wait too long the Dang borers will perferate em.If I'am working around a pto joint I'll take an old towel and let the joint snatch it,about 6" will flap around and warn you when your getting close[do at your own risk].

[woodbowl]

How do you folks in the north deal with pine shingles? Do you dip them in a treatment or put them on straight? How long do they last? Here in the south, pine is out of the question unless it is treated. Our wood of choice is cypress.

[Jeff]

I've never seen pine used here in Michigan, although they may, but we have Northern White cedar growing in pockets overmuch of the state and you can't ask for a better shingle material then that.

[jason.weir]

How do you folks in the north deal with pine shingles? Do you dip them in a treatment or put them on straight? How long do they last? Here in the south, pine is out of the question unless it is treated. Our wood of choice is cypress.

Everyone does it different - there are plenty that are put up dry, some are stained after and I know a few who dip them and let them dry before being put up.

What I'm using is Eastern White Pine probably different from what you've got down south - not really that rot resistant, won't last very long in a moist environment. 

I will put mine up plain - let them dry for a season and then stain them with Uncle Larry's famous walnut stain.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,11906.0.html

Up here Cedar is a better choice but harder to come by unless you go to the big box store and pay $60 a bundle..

-J

[bandmiller2]

I bought my shingle mill from an old man ,he showed me white pine shingles his father put up many years ago all dried out and thin but no rot.He said the man that puts up pine shingles will never have to replace them.He also said they are no good on a roof.Cedar is the premium product if'en you have it .When shingles dry the thin top shrinks more than the butt,if your fussy they will need to be trimmed and rebutted hence the trade term.If they are stacked toe to butt and dried then edged they are much square-er.Modified my cams to make a 3/4" butt nice effect and quite stable.Frank C.

[Chico]

Nice job I love to see those old machines run kinda feel a kinship to em ;D Sometimes I think we get ahead of ourselves in the newer is better dept but unfortunately you have to keep up with technology or get left in the dust :-\
Chico

[StorminN]

I'd like to have a brake or at least a remote pto shut off.  The new tractor has a electronic pto switch so a cable and pulley wont work.  We'll see what I can come up with..

If the PTO switch is electronic, it should be fairly easy to tap into that circuit and run a cable with a switch or maybe even a wireless remote...

-Norm.

[NHHillbilly]

Very nice setup.  All excited to show a freind of mine that collects old tractors and wants one.  Showed him the video and He said your name and Even said he had a chance to run that mill with his Farmall A.  So Jeff Mellett Says Hello.

[jason.weir]

Thats great, small world - Jeff's Farmall did run my mill up at the "I love old tractors" show in Woodstock, NH last summer.

http://www.waterestcampground.com/events.htm

You can just see the rear wheel of the Farmall



I believe Jeffs a cousin of the guy who hosts the show - Ralph Bradley.

Jeff also sharpened and set the blade for me, glad he got to see the fruits of his labor.

I believe it was the first shingle blade he had ever done and what a wonderful job he did.

Jeff should be a member here I know he's got valuable knowledge and experience

-J

[Hilltop366]

It may be a bit far for your friend that wants one but there is a shingle mill in Nova Scotia listed on Kijiji under Halifax there is also a stave mill listed as well.

[NHHillbilly]

I will let him know about the mill prob alittle far.  Thanks though for the info

[okie]

Oh what fun I would have if I owned one of them ;D. So was that set up built to run like that or is it a sawmill with modifications ???. Please forgive my ignorance there.

[bandmiller2]

Okie,they are a purpose built machine.They were quite a few back east years ago,some with horizontal blade called mery go round mills,some built of wood.Chase and Lane were the better of the lot.My Chase came from a burned out factory in Maine used to make thin wood to hold salted cod,no taper 1/4" thick.Most use a spring set blade 36 to 40 "with a collar and tapered to the teeth.They are fun and interesting at a show but it gets old fast,would hate to make a living cutting shingles.Frank C.

[okie]

There is'nt any taper to the shingles you are making??

[Jeff]

I think Corley5 should quit making kids and get busy working on this.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,12617.msg176402.html#msg176402

[bandmiller2]

Okie,depends what I' am using for cams and how its set.Look at Jasons picture the chunk is clamped between two shafts with star wheels along their legnth.At the end of each shaft is a disc with notches cast into it.Normal shingle their are two notches close togather then a space and two more ,the discs are ratcheted alternating thick thin.My thick butt shingles I just removed some of the notches,thin end the same ,thick end twice as thick.For boxwood use  discs with even spacing.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

The older post Jeff just brought up is what we call a merry go round mill,will keep your finger nails trimed.Old shingle makers have trouble ordering more than a couple of beers.Frank C.

[Captain]

Add me to he list of those that want one...

[StorminN]

Me too... and I know there are a couple of shingle mills within an hour of my place that have closed up in the past couple of years...

-N.

[petefrom bearswamp]

take a look at the mankiller on Woodweb under SLR
Looks like BOOOOORING WORK

[Sawmill_Bill]

Jeff also sharpened and set the blade for me, glad he got to see the fruits of his labor.

I believe it was the first shingle blade he had ever done and what a wonderful job he did.

Did he sharpen it using the directions from bandmiller2's thread?

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,28613.0.html

I have a horizonal shingle mill that doesn't work very well because of the hack sharpening job that was done on it.  I want to get it right.

Thanks.

[jason.weir]

Kinda...

As we know, there are 2 basic ways to sharpen a circular saw - rip saw or cross cut saw.  Because there are so many cord wood saws out there I think a lot of shingle blades get sharpened cross cut when they should be rip saw.

The guy that sharpened mine put as much hook angle into the blade as his equipment would allow and put just half a tooth set into each tooth.  He could not go as far as Frank's instructions but went as far as he could and the thing cuts exceptionally well

Because he used a fixture and a stone grinder to sharpen the blade each tooth and gullet ended up being shaped exactly the same and had the same height. 

I believe this and the set had the most to do with how it cuts.  I could get a sharp tooth with a file but it would not cut.

Find someone locally that sharpens bandsaw blades and cord wood saw blades - they should have the equipment to do your shingle blade.

Tell them to put as much hook angle in it without going over what Frank posted and do half a tooth set and I bet your problems will go away.

The only other thing to check is the blade itself - every shingle blade I've seen is thinner at the rim than it is at the center and usually has a large collar - mine is 70% he size of the blade itself - it keeps the blade stiff - no flex at all..

Good luck...

-Jason

[Sawmill_Bill]

Thanks for the reply.

It worked well some years ago before the current person running it "sharpened" it.

I will see what I can do for it.

[bandmiller2]

Jason,you have your shingle mill cutting well.Can you slow down the feed a tad I noticed it gains on you,cuts faster than you can edge.The Chase has three speeds if I recall I use the slowest outherwise things happen too fast for this old duffer.Would help on those big chunks.Of course when you get your circular mill running hint hint you can make big cants with most of the sapwood cut off.Nice square cut blocks you can go like gangbusters,and with the bark cut off you can wait till their dry to edge them for those truely square edges.Frank C.

[jason.weir]

The Lane has 3 feed rates as well.. I've got it at the slowest feed rate.

You're right I can't keep up - never mind going any faster

I usually run the blade @ 1100 rpm - right at the bottom end of the range Lane recommended

I could slow it down some and that would slow the feed as well but I'm not sure what affect that will have - is it like a circle blade and needs to run at a certain speed?

-J

[bandmiller2]

Yes Jason shingle blades need to be tensioned,not sure if its as critical as a headsaw due to the collar.Bruce hammered mine at what he considered the lowest speed for the 40" blade 1000 rpm.At the time i was running it with an old Ajax steam engine that didn't like to turn much over 200 rpm.Frank C.

[StorminN]

Came across this tonight... I think I still don't realize how many of these machines there were around these parts, 100 years ago...

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/kinsey&CISOPTR=26&CISOBOX=1&REC=4

(admins, I'm posting a link because it's a copyrighted photo)

-N.

[jason.weir]

Thanks!!

What a great picture - I can count at least 11 in that picture..

Looks like they are sawing 20" shingles in that first mill..

What kind of wood does that look like?

-J

[StorminN]

Jason, I can't tell what kind of wood from the picture... but seeing as it was taken here in WA state, I can't imagine it's anything other than Western Red Cedar?

-Norm.

[schmism]

jason, how come you dont saw a 4-5" flat on one side then turn 90?

the old guy that always brings his shingle saw out to the the fall fair every year always turns his ceder chunks once so he has at least one clean edge to start.