Using 'store-bought' logs?

[scgargoyle]

I'm thinking about using logs for a great room when I build my house, and due to time and money constraints, I have to look at milled logs. There's a supplier fairly close by, and their prices seem decent. They offer a variety of profiles, and air dried or kiln dried. Am I gonna regret using these 'logs'? How much shrinkage can I expect from air dried? Kiln dried? They use white pine- good, bad, ugly? Anything else I need to look out for? Thanks!

[witterbound]

You say you might use store bought logs because of time and budget constraints.  I did a porch out of dried cedar.  The beams and posts cost me at least $300 each.  I can buy similar timbers, from the sawmill, for $50 each.  I can't believe that store bought dried timbers will be less expensive.  Generally dried timbers are harder to work with.

[scgargoyle]

Actually, I was talking about logs, as in log cabin. I looked into timber frame, which should be a no-brainer, as I have hundreds of nice trees on my property, but I have to use graded timbers (building code)- I can't just saw my own and go to work, which is what I wanted to do. I've been told the cost of having my own stuff graded puts it into the price range of buying timbers elsewhere. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[jdtuttle]

I'm not sure where your building but you may want to check with your code office to see if they have a similar form to this one. If they accept this you can saw your own lumber. If your not comfortable grading lumber yourself, check with a mill and hire one of their graders.
Good luck,
jim


http://www.dos.state.ny.us/CODE/pdf/LUMBERFORM.pdf

[witterbound]

Oh, the old "stamp" issue.  It is a pain. 

[SeeSaw]

J.D Tuttle,

thank you for that link.  That is helpfull.  I use to follow all of their rules.  Don't anymore use my own lumber where and how I please.  It's stronger than what they sell and they would have to prove otherwise.  They have not been able to do that.  Most inspectors that I've dealt with don't even know why it's stamped in the first place.

SeeSaw

[sawdust]

Ah, maybe not really playing straight but I know a guy who carved his own rubber stamp. He has his own name on it he is not misrepresenting who he is. He hates bureaucrats and interference.

david

[scgargoyle]

I'll admit, I haven't actually asked my local authorities yet. SC goes by IBC 2006, and I dug around in there and found the bit about the graded lumber. I've met with the head of the building department twice, and he's been real helpful and friendly. I'd like to keep it that way! I guess I'll get my courage up and ask the question. I could also check with a couple local mills in the area, and see if they have a grade stamp. If nothing else, I will be using some of my timber for flooring and trim. Only makes sense to use what's growing right on the spot you want to build on- saves hauling the wood..... anywhere. I like the idea of making your own stamp- I doubt very much the inspectors look for grade stamps anyway, and any kind of stamp would probably satisfy them. I just don't want to cut and erect an entire frame, and then find out I've got a fussy inspector.

[beenthere]

And there are inspectors that do  know what the stamp means, and there are some who just want to see that it is stamped.

There are even some who can recognize a better non-stamped log/timber than a stamped one, but won't stick their neck out to pass the inspection. It is their neck on the line if some disaster happens.

Insurance companies, looking for any way out of paying for a loss, will love it to find a non-stamped timber allowed by an engineer or an inspector if a disaster occurs.
Have been on a few of these things in courts, where some real innocent people ended up paying instead of the insurance company. Regardless if the non-stamped timber did not fail.

One example was a scaffold that failed, injuring a worker. The steel scaffold frame member failed but the scaffold co. had all its bases covered for any liability. So the insurance co. lawyers looked into the scaffold planking. Turns out the planks were not stamped. So they reached farther back and found the sawmill that sawed the planks, which had no intention that they were sold as anything but some heavy, wide boards. The buyer cut them to length for scaffold plank. The planks were surfaced green, which meant the knots through the thickness of the planks stuck out beyond the plank surface when the rest of the wood dried and had normal shrinkage. These protruding knots were blamed for putting a concentrated load on the steel cross frame, causing it to fail. The sawmill paid the price as it had no statements going along with the wood boards saying they could not be used as scaffold planks. Pretty far fetched and unfair for sure. But it happened that way.  :( :( :(

[SeeSaw]

Beenthere,

Another example of how attorneys and big goverment are in control of everything.  I think the thing that still amazes me the most about stamped vs non stamped lumber, is how many buildings that still stand today that were built long before these notions were ever concieved. That type of lumber is not good enough to use today.  It just became not good enough when we became a sue happy, attorney ridden society.

[witterbound]

Can one really buy dried logs?

[Raphael]

Dried logs is relative.
Air dried just means the free water is gone and any initial movement is over so the log should stay stable but will still shrink and check.
Kiln dried could mean almost anything (depending on the kiln) but in this case I suspect it means they've heated the logs sufficiently to fix the timber and sap but they will continue to lose cellular water, shrink and check.  There are a couple suppliers running radio vacuum kilns (or the like) that can get out that water but they are really quite pricey (and usually supply timbers, dunno about logs).

[scgargoyle]

The place I was looking at sells both air dried and kiln dried logs, although the moisture content for kiln dried is still 19% (or less). I hesitate to call them logs; they're really timbers milled to a roundish shape. I would think kiln dried would cut way down on the shrinkage, although obviously there will still be some. There prices are significantly cheaper than buying a kit, but it still adds up. The real savings would come in not having to put anything on the walls (other than a finish) inside or out. No siding, house wrap, insulation, drywall, or paint. I think it would save a lot of time getting a house finished, too. I'm just not sure if they would be as good as they sound.

[Stephen1]

I think you will find that the milled logs will be priced close to what a stick framed wall will cost. The marking boys will have that covered. I found that the cheapest part of my project was the logs, $2500, it was the rest of the building that cost the money, roof, foundation. The time spent notching the logs was also in the large, on average 8 hrs per log, and I used small logs so that I could handle them by myself.