Small Tracked Skidder and Grapple Log Trailer.

Chico · May 31, 2009, 01:01:41 PM

You're going to need a pretty hefty pump to run those acss I would use a 2stage because you can get more press at lower RPms and it makes your accs work quicker as a rule jmo you could call someone like vickers and ask them then find you something I myself would go with 20 GPM or thereabouts, But rergardless of what size pump you run be sure and run as big a oil tank as you can It will help the system stay cool and I would try to find a way to get the valve out of the cab even if I had to use linkage It will take the heat out and also the chance of being scalded by Hot oil If you have to put it in the cab Be sure and put some type of deflector so the oil can't get to you in case of a busted line and with quick coupling your going to have seepage on hook up It might be better to run the lines outside and use a bracket for all the couplings ,JMO It's looking good you're going to have a neat little machine when you're through

Coon · June 05, 2009, 05:23:16 PM

Well I am home again. A few things changed at work and I got sent home for 5 days off after working five nights. I just got home yesterday and today I get a call to come back for a couple of extra night shifts early because one of the guys has to go to the city for surgery on his hand due to a work injury that happened last night. I guess he got a chunk of steel embedded into one of the bones in his hand. Extra shifts = extra money for some of the needed pieces to the project. Gotta get some hyraulic hoses and such....

Guess there won't be no time to work on the project this time around.

:( :'(

No this project is really in no way set up like a small excavator. Set up way more like a small cat and the log trailer is just a grapple log traile like you would pull behind a small tractor or atv. The grapple system in this case is going to run off of the auxillary circuits of the skidder.

I really do not know how many GPM I will need to run but yeah i was thinking about using a two stage pump. I will keep in mind the suggestions about the valve inside the cab, but I am pretty sure that it will have to be put in there due to space limitations. I will be sure to put a guard around it though.

Brad.

Sprucegum · June 08, 2009, 12:05:57 AM

I can't give you a definite size for hyd. pump but I bet you don't need as much as you think you do ??? ;D
You will have lots of things run off hydraulics but you really only run one at a time. If you have a small 2-stage on hand give it a try. I guess what I'm saying is don't waste a lot of time looking for a big pump just to save 30 seconds on a grapple lift.

Coon · June 08, 2009, 02:26:11 AM

I hear you on that one. I have been looking around for just about any two stage hydraulic pumps. There is all kinds of old farm equipment around that I can take off of but then alot of them are single stage.

Here is one pump that I have on hand along with the tank and valves but I don't want to use a high pressure set up. I am pretty darn sure that it is high pressure because of the pressure fittings. Came off a 510 Massey Fergusson combine.

I may have to break down and buy a new pump but I don't want to. Remember I am trying to use everything used except for small things like hoses and wiring and such.

Hope the weather will be in my favour in the morning so I can work on the project.

Sprucegum · June 08, 2009, 09:51:13 AM

I am not familiar with that pump. Is that 1" suction and 3/8" outlets? Could be a bit small alright. I would plumb everything with 1 1/2" suction and 1/2" pressure lines then reduce down right at the pump if you need to. Mount the pump where you can get at it easy and leave lots of room around it in case you want to size up later.

Easy to do on paper :

Good luck making it fit ;)

Coon · June 08, 2009, 11:54:19 AM

Yup, pump size and location are part of my main concern as well with this being a fairly small unit.

This pump that I showed you has to be waaaay to small and too high of pressure. The tank will only hold maybe a maximum of 2 imperial gallons.

I have an Eaton hydraulic motor that I will be using for either the winch or the rotator on the grapple. I am not to sure on the max flow for the motor but I know we use the same ones at work. These get ran up to 6.5 GPM. I believe that they will handle up to 10.

So I believe a system of up to 10 GPM should suffice with an operating pressure of 2500-3000psi. What do you guys think?

Chico · June 09, 2009, 07:47:03 AM

The reason I suggested a larger pump is My thoughts were that you may use two things at on time such as the lift and swing or the grapple and swing while dragging a log etc though I'm by no means an expert I just always build big so the system will run cooler and less chance of hot oil bypass jmo
Chico

Coon · June 09, 2009, 12:22:40 PM

I am pretty sure that 10 GPM is more than sufficient. We run full sized tractors on less at work. A two stage pump should give me what I need. Think of this unit I am building as being a small tractor/cat cuz it is really no different except for the fact it is built for my needs.

I guess the working on the project wasn't meant to be these days off. We have been getting some much needed rain. I may be able to get some done later this afternoon will just have to see. Would like to get the engine/trans mounted on the frame atleast so I can get some measurements made.

John Mc · June 10, 2009, 09:49:26 PM

Will the speed changes involved in a two stage pump cause you problems? Imagine moving a log slowly under enough load that you've kicked the pump into "low gear". something slips or otherwise reduces the load. The pump kicks in to high gear, and things start moving at twice the speed.

I'm no expert at hydraulic design, but are any of the commercially made grapples run off a two stage pump? There must be a reason tractors use single stage pumps -- if that reason were just price, and there were a real advantage to two stage pumps in these applications, you'd think someone woould ofer it as an option or a retrofit.

Chico · June 10, 2009, 11:58:20 PM

All a two stage pump really does is reduce the cycle time by being able to maintain a higher press at a lower rpm it should n't really just take off almost all hyd feeds etc are two stage jmo
Chico

ksu_chainsaw · June 11, 2009, 10:38:22 AM

A 2-stage pump will maintain the same PSI on either stage, but what is compromised is the flow rate(GPM). This will affect how fast something will move- the more flow that is going through a hydraulic cylinder or a motor, the faster it will move. Having 2 or more smaller pumps would be a better choice, then they could be sized to match the flow rate for each application. An example of this would be one large pump for the drive train, another pump for power beyond for the grapple on the trailer, and then another pump for blade and winch on the skidder. This would reduce the cost as smaller hydraulic pumps are easier to find in salvage lots than the larger pumps that would run everything.

Just my opinion.

Charles

Chico · June 11, 2009, 10:50:59 AM

good idea
Chico

John Mc · June 11, 2009, 09:18:49 PM

Quote from: Chico on June 10, 2009, 11:58:20 PM
almost all hyd feeds etc are two stage jmo

On log splitters, maybe. On tractors, they are mostly single stage (mine has one pump for power steering, and another for flow to implements, such a loader and whatever I've got hooked up to the rear hydraulic remotes).

sjfarkas · June 11, 2009, 11:47:22 PM

I know that many tractors run multiple pumps. I've been told that Timbco's run up to 4 pumps.

Chico · June 12, 2009, 12:24:20 AM

I'm speaking of larger sawmill feeds such as the big Berry's and sunstrands and pumps that feed the schurman gang etc while operating the pins and arbor setup etc Sorry I should have been more specific John ;)
Chico

sjfarkas · June 15, 2009, 09:04:00 PM

I'm itching to hear about more progress. Any news? Have you resolved the pump question?

Coon · June 19, 2009, 12:52:08 PM

Well I just got home from a nine day stint of work. Each day was minimum of 12 hours and the longest days were 16 hours for a total of 128 hours. Have not had a chance to even think of the project YET... Progress will come in the next few days that I will be home. But for now......

Coon · June 21, 2009, 01:35:49 PM

Grrr. It's not looking good for working on this project. We have been getting rain for the last three days and it's coming down harder than ever now. Need to get myself a garage built in the worst way. :(

Ironwood · June 21, 2009, 09:28:23 PM

Diito, on the better work space, many of my truck, car, tractor projects occur outside :-\. Have you ever looked into a truss arch style building/ tent. Some are very nice and inexpensive (not to mention sometimes non taxable)

Ironwood

Coon · June 22, 2009, 02:28:14 AM

Yes I have thought about those types of buildings in the past but..... money is a little to tight right now with paying a mortgage, vehicle payment and utilities. With these types of buildings property taxes will go up nearly as much as with a framed garage around here. Insurance will take a major jump as well. Theft is a big concern in this area too. One of these tent style buildings in town just got cut open a few days back. Four quads, a 14 foot aluminum boat with motor and trailer a numerous tools got ripped off. The guy is having trouble getting his insurance to pay out now so.....

What I need to do is to figure out a way to get around having to use graded lumber. May be able to build one out in the country and move it into town providing that I can prove that is a new building.

Ironwood · June 26, 2009, 09:53:55 PM

"Stamped" lumber, what a crock of @!!@#$. That crap just never ends, wish the gov't would pull there heads out of our @#$es and forget trying to see what we had for dinner. :-[

Sorry, soap box moment! :

Ironwood

maple flats · June 27, 2009, 09:03:03 PM

In New York State we are allowed to use rough cut as long as the sawyer (me) signs a statement that it is number 2 or better. I have never had a problem because if anything looks bad like what the big box stores with "graded Lumber" sell, I cut it into 20" lengths and use it in the maple syrup evaporator for fire wood. Check it out, you may have a similar law or regulation. Locally our codes enforcement officer did not know until I supplied a copy of the regulation (or law?) for him to use and a completed form, signed by yours truly.

woodmills1 · June 28, 2009, 07:08:09 AM

we have a similar law in NH, ours requires training from UNH, but with all of the budget cuts the training is not being offered. I took the training course years ago and it was fun to talk with other sawyers from around the state. when the talk turned to what interesting stuff have you hit, a sawyer from my town "won" when he said, thats nothing I hit a musket once!

maple flats · July 06, 2009, 07:09:57 PM

I hope NY doesn't find out NH requires training or they will start to, also with no classes offered.

Coon · July 07, 2009, 12:48:48 PM

Hey guys and gals, I just thought it was time for an update. Well not much in physical appearance has been done but I have been out gathering and removing parts off old farm equipment and such. I have gotten a hold of a bunch more steel. Didn't even have to load it myself.... the wood ticks did it all for me. :D :D Heck, I didn't even have to walk myself. :D :D I don't have any pics this time but I can tell you that I will be doing a whole lot of cutting and preparing to weld. I am sure the next time I am on days off there will be plenty of pics as I weld.

I even realized that I have already have the material for the grapple arch for the back of the machine. This will be removable and be bolted on.

Coon.