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Author Topic: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder  (Read 18819 times)

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Offline WMcGinn

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Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« on: May 28, 2009, 07:02:59 AM »
Hi,  I'm brand new to this forum, so I hope this is the appropriate place to post this question.   I'm going to fabricate something to help me get logs out of my hilly woodlot.  I've got a large ATV, and also a small Utility Tractor.   I'm wondering what will work best for working on unlevel ground,  An arch type skidder I can use with either the ATV or tractor,   or a 3 point hitch skidder attacment for the tractor?   
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures...... right next to the Mashed potatoes.

Offline tonto

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 07:12:56 AM »
Welcome to the forum WMcGinn. You will find a wealth of knowledge here on the forum. Do a search on ATV arches and you see many home made and ones that are manufactured. I would like to build an ATV arch for my Polaris also. Don't know much about 3-point hitch set ups but I am sure they would work great if you have the tractor already. Good luck, Tonto.   
Stihl MS441 & Husqvarna 562XP. CB5036 Polaris Sportsman 700 X2. Don't spend nearly enough time in the woods.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 07:52:31 AM »
Welcome to the forum.What size tractor you have,in hp please,4wd?I have a 3pt winch on the back of my 40 hp 4wd tractor.Since you have a ATV and a tractor I would go with the 3 pt.Just because of the hyds.But I have been around tractors all my life and know what they can do and can't do.I know there are many that do it with a ATV but that is all they have.I have uneven ground to to deal with.I just winch to me and try to make my trails straight up and down.There is one place I hauled in some rocks and dirt to make it level for me.We use to use a 2wd Ford NAA,20 hp in the woods.Have to be REAL CAREFUL doing this.If you have never done any of this,be it a ATV or a tractor,take it slow and take small logs.You talk about making something.Takes a lot of chains to get a log from a hard place to you.We bought a 3pt winch and it is so much easier and quicker.Easier is really the word.Saves so much work from the way we use to do it.If the log you are twitching catches up on a rock,stump,root you risk the chance of flipping the tractor over.Take it slow and don't be in a hurry and it will all be fine.Realize anything can go wrong at any time.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Online beenthere

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 09:23:14 AM »
welcome to the forum.

I've both, ATV and 4wd Utility.  My question to you...can you move around your hills with both your ATV and your Utility?

Given the two, I choose the 4wd and the 3pt easily over the ATV. I'd only add the ATV to the equation if hauling for long distance (1/4 mile or more) over good trails. Then the faster moving ATV would work well.

I have the quick hitch on the 3pt, and toss the logging tongs on the hook, and add a few choker chains to reach out and get most logs. Sometimes use a couple lengths of cable and snatch block to pull logs up to the tractor location.

Pic of my setup.  For me, I'm not for want of anything more. And with the loader on, don't have issues with flipping the tractor.

 






This one had the snow plow on for that time of year, but usually the loader is on with the forks.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline John Woodworth

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 09:59:24 AM »
What ever you use make sure you have good roll over protection eevn if you have to add to anything pre-existing, I've rolled skidders before and was pinned under once and it,s not a happy time. Even with all theri protection at times it's not enough, things happen so quick.

Good luck and take care.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Offline nas

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 11:50:12 AM »
Welcome to the forum. 8)
If you have a hilly woodlot I would go with the 3ph winch.  The winch is great for pulling logs out where you can't get to with the machine.  The weight of the tractor will also make it possible to pull bigger loads up and down those hills

Nick
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Offline WMcGinn

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 12:39:28 PM »
Thanks, All, 
This is some good info.   My ATV is a Yamaha Grizzly 600 4x4, the utility Tractor is a 32 hp JD 4310 hydro 4x4 with a loader.  I've got both bucket and Forks.  I agree with the comments about safety.  I don't know if its just my CUT or all of them, but if you get on much of a slope it would easily tip over.(Have had some close calls already)   I try to maneuver straight up/down if possible. 
We had an unbelievable ice storm in NE Arkansas early this year and while I did have some good access trails throughout my place the landscape has changed substantially. Job 1 is now going to be cutting some access paths I can use to get in to salvage some of the rootwadded and damaged timber.   
Based on what I've seen and your feedback I'm leaning toward a 3 point type skid system.  I think I can have my local Welding shop fabricate that cheaper than the arch, and invest that extra money into a winch of some type. 

Thanks again for your input, and I hope to contribute to the forom as well.   

Wm       
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures...... right next to the Mashed potatoes.

Offline sjfarkas

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2009, 10:01:11 PM »
put water in your tires and the extra weight so low to the ground dramatically increases stability.
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

Offline WMcGinn

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 11:33:07 PM »
put water in your tires and the extra weight so low to the ground dramatically increases stability.

You know,  that's a great idea,   I'm sure they'll need some type of antifreeze.   Is that something typically is a do it yourself task,  or have it done somewhere.    I'm thinking it would take some type of special fitting or tool to get the water into the tire?       Also,  do I need to do both front and back?     I'm thinking this would help with traction alot too....

Thanks, 
Wm
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures...... right next to the Mashed potatoes.

Online beenthere

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 12:13:23 AM »
WMcGinn
I've a 4300 and did the tires myself, with windshield washer fluid. Cheaper than antifreeze.

Took the tires off, laid them on the ground and broke the top bead. Propped up the center of the rim so the lower bead didn't leak, and poured in the fluid. If I remember right, about 30 - 35 gal in each tire. After filling, raised the tire up to close the top bead, and filled with air. A tie-down strap might help here around the perimeter of the tire. I didn't need to use one tho.

There are fluid fittings to use as well. Takes longer to pump the fluid into the tire than just pour it in.

I only filled the rear tires. Have never felt a need to do the front ones.


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Offline sjfarkas

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 12:39:12 AM »
The tire shop we use will do it for us on our farm tractors.  They do it with an adapter that screws to the valve stem and a garden hose.  They always do it on the tractor because the tires are too heavy to lift.  They set the beed then start filling with water.  They keep the valve stem at the top and have to let some air out as it's filling.  They top the pressure off with air.  We've bought an adapter to do it, but I don't think we have had to use it.  Anti freeze is a good idea.  With 8 pounds per gallon of water you can add a lot of weight.
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

Offline scottedward58

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 01:18:11 AM »
we had calcium put in all 4 of our tractors tires when we replaced the rear tires don't they do that everywhere?

Online beenthere

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 02:22:20 AM »
Calcium is heavier (by about 3# per gallon heavier) than the window washer fluid, but also is corrosive and can be more of a nuisance if you spring a slow leak (causes a rusted rim). Window fluid is a might bit cheaper too.

Just some trade-offs to keep in mind.

The beat juice is heavier than the Calcium, but more expensive. I think its called Rimguard or similar.

Wheel weights are another option.

A winch system like the Farmi will add ballast too.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline park ranger

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 03:57:19 AM »
I use a JD like yours at work and noticed as we got it from the dealer the back wheels were set real narrow.  I just swapped the wheels and it widened the wheelbase quite a bit.  It feels much better now. 

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2009, 04:44:02 AM »
I use calcium in my tires.You need tubes in your tires.That beet juice stuff is nasty when you have a leak to work with.My tires are very heavy when loaded.The only safe way to handle them is with another tractor loader really.I've done it without before and it's a real bother.We parked it under a tree and used chain falls.Now I have someone come right to the house.Just had a tube put in for $160.My rear tires are spaced out at 6 feet.I hope you don't have the turf tires on your tractor.Probably you have 4 ply tires.When they go,buy at least 6 plys.You are cutting on your own land,so make your trails to work with for years and keep the brush out of them.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline mike_van

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2009, 05:47:28 AM »
Wm - Another thing to consider is tire chains. Many skidders run them year round, as the forest floor can be one of the slickest places around. Add a steep grade, and wow, there you go.............
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Offline jander3

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2009, 08:16:09 AM »
I have a tractor and ATV.  The ATV with log arch works better for me (my property is wooded and hilly).   


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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2009, 09:29:19 AM »
park ranger
What was your Deere model?

jander3
A big difference between tractors in this case. Your trike style and his 4wd utility style, along with low center of gravity and the 3pt lift are worlds apart in the woods.  :)

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2009, 02:33:15 PM »
Beenthere,

You are probably right. I only move that tractor with the tricycle front end on stable level ground.   Makes me nervous. 

Offline WMcGinn

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Re: Arch skidder vs 3 point skidder
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2009, 05:01:32 PM »
I'm going to check if swapping the tires might help widen things... I did eyeball this once but ti didn't look like  would help.  I checked local tire store and its about 120 bucks to get both back tires weighted with and Alchol water mixture.     
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures...... right next to the Mashed potatoes.


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