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Author Topic: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch  (Read 16568 times)

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Offline pnyberg

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Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« on: August 21, 2009, 05:53:40 PM »
This really isnt much of story, because everything went pretty smoothly.  But, I have a few pictures as a consolation prize. 

The arborists were here a couple of weeks ago to take down the trees providing most of the unwanted shade.  (When they unpacked, they pulled out a LogRite peavey, so I knew they were pros. :))  The trees had the potential to damage the house, or other structures (otherwise, I would have dropped them), so two of the guys climbed trees to limb them, and lowered sections to the ground to be dragged out of the way by a couple of workers.  Well, the branches were out of their way, but now they were in my way. 

I made sure to mention that two of the trees were going to be milled.  I didnt tell them how much trunk to leave whole, but they stopped cutting about where I would have.  The 37 section from the largest tree made a pretty good size dent in my lawn. 

The job took them about half a day, after which, I wrote them a big check, and they went on their way, leaving me with logs to buck and move.  But, that was going to have to wait until the next weekend.  In our email conversation, Dennis Hoover (dba Terrific Timbers) had advised that I order a gallon of Anchorseal, which I had heeded, so I was able to get the exposed ends sealed right away.

I didnt have any particular lengths in mind for my eventual lumber, so I had no plan for my log lengths.  But the logs themselves kind of made my decision for me.  As I mentioned, the larger log, a red oak, was 37.  It seemed natural to saw this into thirds, giving me three logs a bit over 12.  The inside-the-bark diameters at the smaller ends are 17, 18, and 21.  The smaller tree, a black oak it turns out, gave me a full log 26 long, so that became 2 13ers, with small end diameters of 15 and 17. 
 

37' Red Oak Log

 

26' Black Oak Log

Once the bucking was done, it was time for the fetching arch.  The plan was to use the arch with the tow-tongue-and-winch attachment in conjunction with my Kubota B2630 tractor.  My first decision was whether to leave the arch attached to the tractor during positioning and lifting, or to unhitch it.  I decided to unhitch it, and that worked out fine.  When I got a log lifted at the proper point (which never happened on the first try), the tongue weight was positive, but manageable, so re-hitching the arch to the tractor after lifting the log was never a problem.

The second issue was getting the winch cable under the logs.  Only one of the logs was showing any daylight under it anywhere near the center.  For the rest, I had to roll them up onto something to make a gap.  My new 48 LogRite cant hook made this possible, but it didnt make it easy for the larger logs.  I could have made good use of one of the longer models. 

The third problem I had was finding the balance point of the logs.  I wanted the logs completely off the ground during transport, so I wanted to lift just a bit behind the balance point, so that the tail would be in the air, and the nose would be resting on the ground lightly.  Its not rocket science, just good ol trial and error.  Pick a spot, lift, evaluate, lower, repeat.  I think I did get a bit better at this over time.

The 2 speed winch does make quick and easy work of lifting the logs, as long as you remember which speed setting is which.  I did the heaviest log in high speed, mistakenly thinking I was in low speed.  That was a bit of a struggle.  Ive got a label maker.  I think I need to make some idiot labels.

As I mentioned, after a successful lift, the nose of the log is resting lightly on the ground.  Obviously, we cant tow the arch like this.  Among the accessories included with the arch is a ratchet strap with 1 webbing.  Making a circle out of this that goes under the nose of the log and over the back of the arch allows you to pick up the nose.  As I discovered, picking it up just a little is enough, because lifting the tongue to hitch the arch to the tractor will lift the nose even more, while of course also dropping the tail.

The ratchet strap also restrains the nose from wandering about, which it has a tendency to do.  This tendency is particularly strong if you lift the log using the doubling feature.  With a single point lift, the winch cable goes through a snatch block mounted on the archs back, under the log, and then attaches to itself with a hook.  For the alternative two point lift, the hook attaches to a second point on the back just behind; the block.  This doubles the pulling power of the winch.  It also gives the log a strong tendency to want to twist one way or the other depending on which way the cable went under the log.  A log longer than about 12 wont fit completely under the arch, and so will have to be twisted a bit so the nose can go on one side of the tongue or the other.  It occurred to me after the fact that if youre doing a two point lift with a longer log, you could put the nose of the log to the left of the tongue, and route the cable so that the nose will want to go to the right, and so use the tongue to restrain the twisting tendency, and make life easier for yourself.  Its a theory anyway.
 

Arch With Black Oak Log
 

Arch with Red Oak Log

And so the logs were all moved a short distance with little fanfare to the staging area I had selected, and lowered onto 4x4s.  My only comment about lowering is that you really, really need to keep control of the winch handle.  Going up, if you let go of the handle, nothing happens; going down, theres no brakes, and if gravity takes over, that handle is going to spin very fast.  Anchorseal was applied to untreated ends at this point.

Schuyler Montgomery, the current owner of New England Saw & Lumber stopped by some time later to evaluate the job.  The site I selected for the work, and my staging of the logs seemed to meet with his approval.  He said they had a few jobs lined up ahead of me.  I said that since I had to take down one more tree, and it was currently surrounded by branches from the black oak, I wouldnt be ready until after the next weekend.

At that point, with some trepidation, I mentioned that I was considering buying a mill and starting a portable custom milling business.  His immediate reply was fine with me.  He and his wife Jane (they saw as a team) apparently have all the business they can handle while doing almost no advertising.  They do have a web site, but he ignores it, and my experience was that it was very hard to find.  It took me two weeks of looking for anything about portable sawmills in Connecticut before a stumbled over a link on the LogRite site.  I later discovered that the business is in the Forestry Forum Find a Sawyer database, but the contact person is still Kevin.  Anyway, Schuyler seems to feel that if they can stay busy while being hard to find, there must be more business out there.  Uh-oh, more encouragement.

BTW, Schuyler used to post on FF a few years back under the member name of W, but his last post was in 2007, I think.  When we get those perennial can you make a living custom sawing threads, where it seems like almost everyone who responds is a part-timer, people like Schuyler are apparently too busy making a living custom sawing to participate.

Time to wrap this thing up!  I got the black oak branches cleared, took down the red oak in the field, cut 2 12 logs out of it (17 & 18), added them to the staging area, and coated the ends.  Having no further use for the arch in the near term, I stowed in my tractor shed, with its tail on the ground (on a block of wood), and its back vertical, thus taking up very little space.
 

Red Oak in the Field


Staged logs viewed from the driveway
 

Staged logs viewed from the field.  The mill goes on this side.
 

The arch in storage
 

Wall o' LogRite (with Rust Reaper on left)

On Monday, I emailed Schuyler to let him know that I was ready.  No response yet.

Peter
No longer milling

Offline firefighter

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 08:35:03 PM »
I just purchased a fetching arch made by Logrite also have not used it yet but my grand kids wanted there dad to pull it behind there 4wheller ,they thought it was the greatest and they drove around and around there back yard they had a ball.

Offline metalspinner

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 10:42:47 PM »
That's a beautiful place you have there, pnyberg.

Thanks for the story.  Looking forward to seeing boards come out of those logs. :)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Offline tonto

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 05:47:56 AM »
Nice looking set-up there pnyberg. And some nice quality tools. Keep us updated with more pics when boards are made. Tonto.
Stihl MS441 & Husqvarna 562XP. CB5036 Polaris Sportsman 700 X2. Don't spend nearly enough time in the woods.

Offline DGK

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 08:07:19 PM »
A good post Peter. I really appreciate the details that you included regarding the use of the arch. Have you tried keeping the arch attached to the tractor, and then, lift the arch over the log? I am curious as to how practical that is with an arch the size of the fetching arch.
Doug
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LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Offline pnyberg

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2009, 10:43:43 AM »
Have you tried keeping the arch attached to the tractor, and then, lift the arch over the log? I am curious as to how practical that is with an arch the size of the fetching arch.

Doug,

The fetching arch is really too heavy to lift over a log.  Two people might be able to do it, but the owner's manual says "Do not lift the arch".  It doesn't say why, but there's probably a good reason.

You could leave the arch attached to the tractor, and back the arch over the log.  The possible problem with this approach is that if you need to reposition the arch a few times while hunting for the perfect lifting point, you would need to climb on and off the tractor each time.  But with a little practice, there may not be much need to fine tune the position of the arch, so in the long run, leaving the arch attached to the tractor may be the way to go.

BTW, I should have mentioned that the LogRite website not only has complete write-ups on all of their arches, with many pictures, it also has very nicely done videos. 

--Peter
No longer milling

Offline DGK

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 05:59:25 AM »
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply. I have been looking at the logrite arches for some time now. Unfortunately, it has been exclusively via the internet. The Woodmizer dealer in BC was sold out when I was at their shop last June so I did not get a chance to see an arch in person. I am surprised that you say that the manual suggests not lifting the fetching arch. I have been trying to decide between an ATV arch and the fetching arch for use behind my ATV. To me, it looks as if the fetching arch would offer a lot more flexibility than the ATV arch. The ATV arch is of course, demonstrated using the lift-over-the-log technique. Go figure.

The trees that I would like to use the arch on are relatively light (standing dead spruce) so I was kind of hoping to choker a few or more at a time and then skid them out with the tops dragging. I have a Bombardier 650 ATV which pulls quite well. Anybody have any input as to how practical it is to pull out multiple trees at one time using the ATV arch? Comments appreciated.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Offline pnyberg

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 06:12:02 AM »
Anybody have any input as to how practical it is to pull out multiple trees at one time using the ATV arch?

I haven't done this, but I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work.  There are pictures on the LogRite web site showing them doing exactly this with the ATV arch.

http://www.logrite.com/atvarch.html
No longer milling

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 06:13:44 AM »
Was just thinking a wider arch that was street legal would be handy to haul home logs,of course you'd have to chain them up propper.Are any of the logrites road legal?? Frank C.
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 05:07:55 AM »
Gday

Doug I reckon  ??? ;) :D that for the type of stuff your looking at doing seeing if you could get logrite to fit an H/duty 12v electric winch then runn a heavy usage batt wire strait to the battery on the bombadier sett up some chokers on it backup to where you could pull afew upto and under the arch then away you'd go mate  ;) ;D 8) 8)

regards Chris
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Offline DGK

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 06:47:14 AM »
Hello Chris,

I was thinking of a Lewis Winch to winch the logs to the trail and then choke them to the arch. The ATV battery is pitiful for use with a light winch let alone a bigger one. I have a few saws so attaching one to the Lewis would be no problem.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 06:58:32 AM »
Peter,be sure to be around when Monty cuts you logs good way to learn tricks.Are you thinking about a band or swing mill for yourself??I'am sure the arch will be handy to yard out tree legnth logs for firewood.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 09:03:19 AM »
Gday

Peter I ment to say Nice Pics  ;D also Franks question what type of mill are you thinking of getting  Mate  ;) ;D 8) 8)

Doug Iv'e seen those winches in Log Home magazine years ago (80s :)   ;) )they look like a good winch  ;) ;D Have you also thought about a grapple for the bobcat just pinch enough together for a skidd then pull them out with it also  ;) that would be quicker but you would have to like or get use to driving in reverse Mate  ;) :D :D ;D

Regards Chris
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Offline Tam-i-am

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 09:46:45 AM »
Let's see if I can help you out with some of the questions.

About lifting the Fetching Arch and ATV arches.  We put handles on the arch for just that reason.  sometimes especially for me who cannot back up with trailers/arches etc.  I prefer to pull up next to the log and then throw the arch over the log.  I may not be able to get it all the way over in one try but I can pick it up and rest one wheel on the log and then reposition myself to lift it again and get the arch all the way over.  For those of you who know me I am not very big, burly or rugged (see captians post about CGI, I scored pretty high).  We have it on video somewhere where we had a couple of people lift the arch and guess how much they actually lifted and all of them guessed around 80 lbs.  Now the reason the manual says not to lift it is because it is a european requirement.  We are trying to get a CE approval and in Europe you are not allowed to lift over 70 lbs hence the required warning.

Now about lifting a whack of logs in the ATV arch: If your logs are stacked it is almost as easy as lifting one log.  The logs do not need to be the same diameter or length.  Again pull up next to pile, place arch over pile, send winch line under pile, place in choker and winch them up.  Here is a tip though, it is best if you are winching an odd number of logs so that the logs will roll into a triangle.  Here are two pictures of multiple logs in arch.

 





 



Hope this was helpful. 

Thanks Peter for your post.

And about New England Saw and Lumber, Jane is the sawyer and she will do an excellent job as soon as Schuyler gets the mill over there. ;D
Tammy

Offline Tam-i-am

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 09:54:58 AM »
I forgot about the road legal question.

The tractor arches (T30 an T36) have tires that are road legal.  The reason for that is you are not going to through those into the pick up to get to the job, they would need to be towed to the job.  All the other tires are rated for the loads that the arches can carry.

Most states do not allow the arches to be towed down the road with logs in them.

The tractor arches also have two receivers one in front and one in back for mounting winches.

Tammy

Offline pnyberg

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »
Peter,be sure to be around when Monty cuts you logs good way to learn tricks.  Are you thinking about a band or swing mill for yourself??  I'am sure the arch will be handy to yard out tree legnth logs for firewood.Frank C.

I'm definitely planning on paying close attention when the milling is being done.  Picking up tricks would be nice, but I'm mostly interested in getting a feel for what a day in the life of a custom sawyer is like.  Of course, it won't really be a representative day, because I'm an above average customer.  ;)  My wife is thinking of taking some time off when Schuyler and Jane are here too, to see what it is I've been talking about. 

To the extent that I have a plan, I'm thinking of an WM LT40HDG28. 

I'm hoping the arch would be handy for more than firewood.   ;)

Let's see if I can help you out with some of the questions.

I was hoping that someone who knew what they're talking about would show up to answer some of these arch questions  ;)  Thanks Tammy.

And about New England Saw and Lumber, Jane is the sawyer and she will do an excellent job as soon as Schuyler gets the mill over there. ;D

I just called Schuyler to let him know that I'm going to be away from home tomorrow through Labor Day (Sept 7).  He said they should be able to get to me soon after that.  I hope so.  The area where the logs are staged is also the area where I have firewood dumped. so the firewood is on hold until the sawing is done.

I'm going backpacking in the White Mountains of New Hampshire with a few friends.  We'll be starting out in some heavy rain tomorrow, courtesy of Tropical Storm Danny, which is passing by offshore.  I seem to attract former hurricanes when I hike.  I was on the Long Trail in northern Vermont when the remains of Katrina came through.  That was one wet day of hiking, let me tell you.  ;D

Peter
No longer milling

Offline Captain

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2009, 06:43:34 PM »
As I recall, Jane scored pretty high too Tammy....

Captain

Offline pnyberg

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2009, 09:08:17 PM »
I got a call from Schuyler this evening.  The mill should be arriving on my property tomorrow morning.  My camera has fresh batteries, and I'll start a new thread with a report.

I think that this will be my last chance to find some reason to dislike sawmilling, otherwise I fear that there is a sawmill waiting for me down the road, and I don't think that she will be a cheap date. 

--Peter
No longer milling

Offline Don K

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Re: Staging Logs with my LogRite Fetching Arch
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 09:39:10 PM »
Looking forward to the event. Without a doubt you will inhale too much sawdust and become infected. If he brings sawmill bugs with him and you get bitten, there will be only one cure for that. Lastly, I would advise wearing metal cutting goggles or a welding shield to protect you vision while those logs are being peeled apart, if you look directly into the grain, it will be like looking at Medusa. You will be forever turned into a sawmill addict. You have been warned!

Enjoy the day. ;D

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
Massey Ferguson 1547 FWD with FEL  06 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4X4 Dozer Retriever Husky 359 20\" Bar  Man, life is getting good!


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