How can I make this work on solar?

[jpgreen]

oops. Obama did it.

[James P.]

JP very nice setup. I don't have any alternative electric but I use on average about 250 kw a month. I have a small 4 cylinder kohler electric plant that puts out 1500 watts but doesn't get run unless power is out. It would be relatively easy for me to get off grid with my consumption . I hope you are right about prices on the solar equipment going down. the only catch with the electric company partial funding. they want you to get everything done by an approved contractor. So for me that is a deal killer. I agree people use way to much electric and alot don't seem to mind going to work to pay for the Tv left on while they are outside. I shut it all off even hot water. When I know I need it I turn it on 20 minutes before and Its hot. Shut it off and go use whats heated. I know its not alot but if you add it up over years like a cable bill. It amounts to a small fortune. Good luck and thanks for sharing the info. Nice machine shop too. I have a sheldon lathe, burke #4 mill and hanchette grinder Grob 18 bandsaw with welder and 24 in Cinncanatti drill press with air over hydraulics. Not as nice as yours shop  but it helps me fix those little parts i can't afford to have someone else make. James P.

[rbarshaw]

A small inverter is good for a small usage. I am looking into running more of our electrical devices from alternative energy.

  Used UPS's are inexpensive, compared to normal inverters, and are actually inverters in a way.

  Our rates down here, DOUBLED, in August.  : :  There are many who talk of doing something, but, don't understand how. Maybe I can assist them. Water is everywhere, and wind is good in hilltop areas, like where I live.

You can hook a larger battery to a UPS, as long as the battery voltage is the same, then the UPS will have the larger capacity to draw from. As long as you don't exceed the output rating of the UPS you will be fine.

[Fla._Deadheader]

OK. Then, how do I draw from the UPS if the AC power is working ???  Would I need to find the proper leads and install a switch ???

  I'm thinking, if the AC is turned off, the whole UPS is shut down ???

[rbarshaw]

Just hook the larger battery inplace of, or in parallel with, the existing batt. the UPS will operate normally on AC power and charge the batt. while suppling ac to your load. If starting with no AC power, just turn the UPS on and it will supply AC to your load till the battery is drained. Some UPS's will not work as they can't turn on unless AC power is first supplied to them.

[Fla._Deadheader]

OK. I may have it figured out. Thanks Robert

[tughill]

Wow what a great thread.

JP- nice shop.  Your setup is very well thought out, and I think you  spent your money in the right places.

A UPS is an inverter, the difference is that it has a rectifier on the input side to convert AC to DC to both charge the battery, and supply the DC to the inverter.

A word of caution though, regarding batteries.  DO NOT hook different size or types of batteries in series OR in parallel.  It's ok to jumpstart a vehicle for instance temporarily, but for a RE (renewable energy) system like this, the different internal impedances of different batteries will probably not match correctly, and generally the smaller battery will die a horrible death, from charging and discharging more than it's fair share.  If you've ever had a truck or tractor that was 24VDC, you may have noticed that even using 2 different brands of batteries killed one or the other too quickly. (because of the impedance mismatch)

Maple Flats- We are practically neighbors, if you need any help with your solar setup, send me a message.  I think you should really consider setting up your solar panels much closer to your inverter, and your inverter close to your loads.  The voltage drops you refer to are known as I^2*R (I squared R) losses, and basically means you are using your expensive solar panel generated electricity (ok I know the sun is 'free' but I'm talking about the cost of the panels) to heat up wire, so that your 150 watt solar panel is at best outputting 100 watts of usable power and 50 watts of heat to the atmosphere around your cables.  (sounds bad, right?).  You already mentioned that you would need a bunch of VERY expensive cable.  It maybe worth putting in a small outbuilding/shed near your solar panels to house your inverter/charge controller/batteries, if you really can't locate your solar array near the load.

[maple flats]

setting the panel closer to the batteries and inverter is not an option. According to the immage I get using a solar pathfinder far too many trees would need to be removed, my maple trees that I use for making maple syrup. I have set the poles and strung 240' of 2 ga Aluminum, the same as would be used for many service supplies from the utility companies. The wire runs from pole 1 120' to pole 2 and then 120' to the sugarhouse. I then have another 25' of 2 ga entrance cable between the two ends, pole 1 top to 5" above the ground the connect to the panels and at the sugarhouse from the top  of the conduit down and into the sugarhouse.  From here it will go to the charge controller and to the batteries at the battery box.For now I am using a small charge controller at 24v but when I can add 2 or more additional panels I will go with the Outback unit I spoke of earlier that will do 12-24-36-48-60 volts in and any of the same out. Then I can up the input voltage and still control the 24v battery bank and inverter.

[woodbowl]

A big part of the expense are the solar panels themselves. I've searched for information on how to build homemade solar panels with little success. Most sites are kits you can buy, experiments and science projects, but not much there for the serious builder. Does anyone know of some good sites that "build from scratch"?

[Fla._Deadheader]

Contact Solar Panel Factories. You can sometimes buy rejects, that have blemishes or are "slightly" under spec output.

  I have read where guys get them for free or for a token price, but, they live close to the factories.