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Author Topic: Lumber Grade Stamp  (Read 5743 times)

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Offline Magicman

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Lumber Grade Stamp
« on: August 29, 2009, 09:45:00 AM »
I know that this subject was kicked around several years ago and ARKY even made up his own grade stamp.

My question/suggestion is; why can't we form our own organization (even under the FF umbrella)
Independent Sawmill Owners Association?  "ISOA #2 SYP" for example.

We are certainly as smart and know lumber grades as well as the SPIB !!!
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline zopi

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 03:10:24 PM »
Short answer..money.
second short answer...lawyers.
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Offline inspectorwoody

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 09:19:18 PM »
I agree with Zopi.

As long as the NHLA and the SPIB are the main over sight and you can easliy be taught how to do both, than I don't see a need to form another organization etc.

You may form your own for your customer base as some do but if either the NHLA or the SPIB caught wind of something in the works, I'm sure there would be some issues.


Offline sgschwend

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 11:03:04 PM »
That would be a good idea for softwoods.

When I looked at the cost to join and then pay a grader the cost was way too high. 

Offline zopi

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 09:43:04 AM »
I'd love to go to grade school...it'd be another skill under my belt and one more way to put beans in the pot...so far though I don't need to...

I like Arky's idea.

I will have the engineer examine my lumber when I do my house addition..the inspectors here
are pretty good guys...they just don't want to take the heat when something fails...can't blame them...they aren't exactly overpaid for a crappy job to do....
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 09:24:32 AM »
Gday

Grading is just plain old common sence which i think we all have here  ;) ;D 8) 8) 8)

I dont know what it is with your country But its seems like the powers that be have had the smaller mills over a barel as far as grading is concerned for far to long  ??? it seems geared to larger mills  ;) (you either have to go without it or pay someone to do it  ??? :) ::) ) which to me has never seemed rite  since ive known it was that way overthere since i was about 14/15  ;)

Downunder anyone can get there graders ticket which costs about $250 and a two day corse for in either H/wood or S/wood Ive had both since i turned 18  ;D 8) We all work to the Aust standard's  which is a handbook about 80pgs long for either  ;) then you just have to have stamps made for each grade and speices with your mill name on it  ;) Too easy as we say down here  ;) :D

We also so have a special one called Fit for Purpose which Cancels out the grading rules if thats what the customer wants  ;) :D ;D no stamp needed on that one  ;) :D :D :D

Before that i just used the old family Rule If in Doubt Chuck It Out  ;) :D ;D ;D 8)

My fav saying is I Never sell anything i would not be happy to use myself  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

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Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 02:49:20 PM »
 



  The Feds set up under the Commerce Dept the American Softwood Lumber Standard PS 20-70.  From this the SPIB and others set up their organizations.  Since I cut SYP the rules are what I go by.  According to the SPIB the stamp belongs to the sawmill or plainermill and not to a person.  But they have inspectors who will come and grade and stamp your lumber.   Your grade only has to be 95% correct and there is no way to tell how much you sent out bad.  If bad lumber goes out the only recourse is for an exchange of boards.  (SPIB rules)
   The SPIB is just a Not for Profit organization that does not want to mess with little mills.  I tried several years ago to join and become an inspector but just got a run around and then was told I was not big enough and could not afford the membership even though I was never given a price.
  So I made my own stamp and grade and stamp my lumber.   Most lumber does not have to be graded (like siding or flooring) and for the most part only structural lumber is graded.  The sizes are one of the key factors and they are set up by the National Grading Rules for Dimension Lumber.   I do not do mechanical stress test and thus do not stamp my lumber as being that way.   What the stamp does is tell about the board and who made it.  That is so they know who owes for a bad board.
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 07:25:42 AM »
Gday

Nice looking stamp there Arky  ;) ;D you even have a border  Our's are the old ones from the building business we had years ago ;) Our Structural ones look like this   ;)

     TIMBERLINE LOG HOMES
          F 7 RADIATA PINE 

     TIMBERLINE LOG HOMES 
          F 5 RADIATA PINE

     TIMBERLINE LOG HOMES
          F 7 DOUGLAS FIR   

The Radiata one Covers about 20 diferent  American Species we have growing down here and the D/fir one covers most Spruce that we also have abit off also  ;)

And finally heres a goodun for you Mate as we have alot of  species that come up in small lots Trail Blocks mainly  ;)

F 5 and F 7   Unidentified Species 

Ive got one too  ;) :D 

Im going to have some new ones madeup soon which will just have HEATHCOTE TIMBER Co on the headline  ;) ;D 8)

I was just Thinking maby i should get my trainers cert and do afew corses if theres enough of  you blokes who want to put a recognized grade on you timber W/o paing through the nose  for it ;) when i get overthere as The Australian Standards are an Accepted Grade in the USA & Canada Might be abit of a LOOPHOLE for Us  ;)   ;D That'll probobly stuff Em Up  ;) :D :D ;D 8)

Regards Chris
 

                                                             
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 08:05:16 AM »
P.S

I forgot to mention that our AS Softwood Grading Rules are based on Your American grading rules  ;) #1 = F11 ,#2 F7 & #3 is F5  ;) You dont see much F11 sawn much overhere even though you can get it out of most good logs its that the market is mainly chasing #2 and #3 grades

Chris
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Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2009, 10:23:06 AM »

  With hardwoods it is alot different.  The NHLA will let you come to school and you can get certified for a reasonable cost.  The SPIB will not let you come to school and if you are not doing 100mmbdft a year they do not want to even talk to you.  Since I do just less then 1mmbdft a year of SYP I am not even a blip on the radar. 
  I have not set down and read all of PS 20-70 but from what I read it would be possible to set up an other Inspection Bureau.  The cost and organization would be tuff.  I know some states have set up rules to allow use of lumber sawn by little mills.  Here we are not burdened to bad by inspections or inspectors who do not have a clue.  Since things like siding and flooring are not bothered by grade stamps it is not an issue with most products.  Timbers are another issue since I do timber framing.   I just print out a copy of the grade rules and stamp or write on the ends of the timbers.  The shear size most of the time just makes the inspectors think they are strong and that is fine with them.   I have a  harder time with old recycled timbers with weathered faces.   Hardwood frames do not have to be grade stamped but do have face codes.
   Where we will do the most good is if we band together and run at our states for passing laws to allow the use so long as we follow the guidelines of the PS 20-70 which for the most part just set trade guidelines so that a 2x4 is a 2x4.  New Jersey was to pass some laws to allow for the use of home made lumber in your home so long as it was disclosed when the home was sold.
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 08:32:07 PM »
I'm in jersey and I can tell you it all depends on the inspector. The old local inspector was fine with things if you oversized the beams.(he retired)This new guy is a horses @$$ Builders don't even want to work in this town anymore. The guy that workes for me wanted to put a white oak header in a doorway when he remodeled two rooms last year. There was no way this guy would let him unless it had a grade stamp.We offered to make the beam without any knots 3 times the size of the laminated beam that the blue prints called for and it was no go no way no how without a stamp. There's a rubber stamp company 5 miles down the road and I almost had one made just for spite.

Offline sgschwend

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Re: Lumber Grade Stamp
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 10:51:16 PM »
In Island County we only need to provide material one size larger.  The other method is to have the plans call out rough sawn lumber, that will work too.

I found the same issue with setting up softwood grading, a large initiation fee which seem to be there to keep the small mills from joining.  I couldn't just call and have a grader come to grade without being a member. 

I frankly didn't like the idea that the grader in one hour would charge me as much as a days wages either.


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