Another mill shed, but with a beam question....

[Frickman]

Almost every mill in my area that has a log deck opening over sixteen feet used steel. I bought a heavy I beam from a friend who tore down a local school. I think he charged me five dollars a lineal foot for it back in the 90's. It was the best hundred and some dollars I ever spent.

[Dana]

I wonder if an I beam from a mobile home would carry the span? You could weld both I beams together (boxed) and it would be much stronger.

[ljmathias]

Has anyone looked into a pre-fabbed truss for the larger openings?  I've got plans for making some that range from 30-50' and I was told it's possible to go even longer- thought about doing it for my mill shed but didn't have the money so just used knee braces on a couple of 12-14' SYP logs... seems to be holding up just fine but then our snow load down here is pretty low, like zero

Lj

[MotorSeven]

Ok....I am going to make y'all crazy. I hung the beam today. I thought hard about it, but I just couldn't use steel for my "mill" shed, it did not seem proper. Knee braces and a removable center post. I will pour a small concrete pad for the post, and use a centering pin in the beam. I had some scavenged power poles that were begging to be used. The span ended up being about 26'........I'll post some pic's tomorrow.

RD

[bandmiller2]

RD Moto,good for you,if it tends to sag too much you could always jack it up and bolt two pieces of channel iron on the sides or do the old cable trick.Its not like you and your family are sleeping under it.Frank C.

[MotorSeven]

I need to mill & hang 6 more rafters. I made them 8 quarter x 7"x16'.

[fishpharmer]

You don't play......looking good.   Similar to member ljmathias.  He has some pretty cool looking bracing.  I stole his post and put it here so you can see.  Hope you don't mind LJ ;D.

I am just finishing up a 14X30 shed on slab dedicated solely to the mill.  Built with two SYP logs as beams on the front and back to hold up the rafters and purlins for metal roof.... but then, my snow load is roughly zero.  Works great for cutting- load logs on one side, take off slabs and lumber on the other.



Haven't got pictures of the shed with the roof on yet- bout to put some siding on and that will more or less finish it up on the outside; still planing on hooks, shelves and storage on the inside.  I'll get more pictures shortly.

Good luck.

Lj

[KyTreeFarmer]

Motor7 Great looking shed so far. Can't wait to see the finished pics.

Mike

[MotorSeven]

Ljmathias had a backhoe, tractor FEL and scaffolding???

cheater.......

[ljmathias]

Cheater?  Of coures!  That's what all those toys are for, no?  Besides, they all get used lots of other places= the FEL is my everyday, go-to piece of equipment.  For example, just scooped up a bunch of my son's plumbing trash and dumped it in the truck for a trip to the dump.  This afternoon, we'll pry up and relocate several piles of concrete pieces of various sizes.  Right now I'm about to cut some 2X12's 20' long for stair stingers for my son's family's new house- using a 28" Katrina SYP (special breed of pine found only in the Deep South) and will use what's left for siding for that same house.  Later today, back to the Purvis tire shop to get my tractor tire which I'll unload into the FEL bucket and then position it on the axle for mounting.  I don't know how I'd ever get along without that FEL- like I said, it's my everyday tool for the last 4 years (and you'll never guess how long I've had it...).

Scaffolding was used to put all the rood and siding up on the big barn and on the sawmill shed- priceless!  Sure beats trying to wrestle big metal sheets perched on a ladder.

And the sawmill?  Why lots of beams and siding (inside and out) for my son's new house- a real work of art if it were done by anyone else; with me it'll be "get'er done!" instead of artistic.

Anyone, I'm also formally retired now (as mentioned by others on the forum) or rather half-retired which goes well with the other half which is half-arsed or so...

Lj

[MotorSeven]

and poor ole me with a FEL & ladder ;)

Got all the rafters up. Had to cut 2 Jack pines down, then make 4 trips up the ridge with the tractor to skid them down. While I whittled on the logs, I cut all the lathing(or purlins) for the tin. I pondered how to attach to the existing shed, & it dawned on me to cut a slot in the board on board to access the vertical cross tie post behind it. Lathing tomorrow if the rain holds off & ordering the tin which will arrive on Wed. That gives me a lot of time to knee brace.......

[MotorSeven]

Ok, mill fans, it's 95% done. I am waiting for some 16" log screws to arrive to finish attaching the knee braces, and hurricane straps(I make my own out of the wide steel lumber/pallet bands...most places throw it away).
The tin came yesterday at about 4pm. As son as the truck drove off it really started raining & the wind was up. So, I sat under the drying shed thinking that I would have to wait to hang the steel. After about 20 min, the rain stopped and the sun came out 8). I got all 42' down before dark, while watching a huge black front move up the valley. It rained all night and my mill is dry!













RD

[Slingshot]

Great loking shed. Are you going to enclose any of it or leave all open. I am putting siding on part of mine so
I can park the mill head out of the prevailing winds and blowing rains. Don't want to have to cover it all the time.
Probably still throw something over the engine.


____________________________
Charles

[fishpharmer]

MotorSeven, Outstanding!!

What I nice setup. 

[MotorSeven]

I think I will leave it open, more worried about heat than cold and I want the sawdust in the air to move out quickly. I used jack pine for the purlins and half of the rafters....kind of an experiement since I read so much bad stuff about jack. I just have a zillion big straight jacks that are easy to get to. If it goes nuts, I'll pull it out and put in poplar. 

So, should I pull up a lawn chair, a cooler of High Life and a nice maduro cigar & watch the beam sag? ;D

RD

[schmism]

looks like you got your solution but FYI

I was a truss engineer for 5+ years.   30-50' flat parrell cord "beam" trusses are very common.  You need height but a 3ply 4' tall 2x6 over 2x6 will span span 80+ feet easy for standard loads.

"big" girder trusses were 80'ers carrying 1500+ lbs per lineral foot.  (those got special foundation support notes due to the 60,000 lb supports required.)

[fishpharmer]

I was a truss engineer for 5+ years.   30-50' flat parrell cord "beam" trusses are very common.  You need height but a 3ply 4' tall 2x6 over 2x6 will span span 80+ feet easy for standard loads.

I am obviously no engineer.  Schism could you explain further, or show a picture or link.   
Thanks

[bandmiller2]

RDMoto,you might need alot of beer and a whole box of cigars.Good job,sometimes you just have to do something and trust your gut feelings.Its a good feeling to hear the rain coming down and know your mill is dry.Keep the shed open to disipate exhaust and dust.Machinery buildings should be either open with good ventilation or closed and insulated to keep equipment from sweating with temp change.Wish we were neighbors.Frank C.

[MotorSeven]

Yes Schmism, a visual aid is needed for those of us that are numerically/mentally impaired ;)

RD

[schmism]

ill run one in the truss software and post a pic tomarrow.

[379hammerdown]

Another good way of carrying a long span is with 2x12's and the rolls of flashing. A friend of mine has 30' spans like this in his large barn, they don't bow one bit. Even after two hurricanes!

He made his with a supply of 16' 2x12's to make the 30' beams. laid down two 16' boards, rolled the flashing over the length, then laid a 16' in the middle and two 8's on either end, to make sure the splices were far apart. Then he fired several nails through the length of it, flipped it over and did the same to the other side... then drilled & put some bolts through every few feet to make sure there wasn't any separation. Then fired lots more nails through them, Trimmed them to length and viola!!!!!!! It wont bend at all because the metal sandwiched in between cant wrinkle. They are super strong!

That's my suggestion.....  8)

[MotorSeven]

I've heard of the flashing thing & would like to try it sometime. It sounds easy and interesting.

RD

[ljmathias]

Wouldn't good wood adhesive do the same thing?  I recall a Popular Mechanics or Science article awhile back that concluded something like, if you glue and screw OSB or plywood to a stick frame, structural strength goes up by 2 or 3 times, but I could be wrong on that (memory is the second thing to go....).  The argument went something like this: failure at a nail or screw involves up and down (back and forth) motion that compresses the wood near the fastener and loosens the fastener in the wood- gradual pull out and failure.  Adhesive stops that initial motion so that the fastener maintains its full holding power.  Make sense?  Anyway, that's how I built a couple of long beams: 2Xsomething wide staggered as mentioned above but with PT plywood cut to width, glued both sides to the lumber, all nailed and screwed and/or bolted together to make everything tight so that everything works together.

I still think an engineered truss is a better way to go, just costs more.  I love the way the trusses in my big barn support across long spans, and the ones in my son's house are incredibly strong in terms of weight bearing ability.  In short: wood is good.

lj

[MotorSeven]

Just wanted to update the status of my mill shed main beam. It's been about 14 months & it still has that slight upward arch to it in the middle and does not appear to have settled/sagged at all. I never did have to put in a temp center brace....I guess I got lucky eh? 8)

[Jasperfield]

 



This is a TF shed I designed & built in October of 09. It's inside dimensions are 18' X 40'.