How long to dry firewood

[BCinVT]

Just found this site recently and have found a ton of info already.Recently moved to a new place,and now have some land.So I'll be cutting my own firewood again.Had about 5-6 cord cut and stacked when we moved in,so I don't need wood for this year.But I'm wondering about how long I'll have to let the wood I cut dry?Started to cut some maple and yellow birch already,but won't be able to get to it to cut it to length and split it till the spring.Going to mostly be Maple,yellow birch,white birch,and beech.Also,I have alot of hemlock on the property,is this stuff worth cutting and burning?Any info is appreciated.Thanks

[ronwood]

Welcome to the forum. I would think a year with it cut and stacked would work.
Ron

[Magicman]

First, Welcome to The Forestry Forum.  I always cut my next year's wood this year, meaning that most has dried around a year.  Of course, our wood species is different.  I burn only red oak.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum.
I find that at least 2 year and half, preferably 3 year, before the wood is dry enough for good burning. I can tell right away when burning wood less than 2 - 3 years split and stacked for air drying. Will it burn less than two years. Yes, it will still burn, but it won't give as much heat - and to me, that is the primary purpose for burning wood.  ;D

Go south, and there is more drying time during the November - April winter months than there is in the northern US. With the low temps and associated high Relative Humidity, wood doens't dry much at all.

When you get a chance to burn wood that is 2-3 or more years drying, you have a hard time going back to wood that isn't that dry. 

My 2 cents. 

Some woods, like ash, are more burnable after a year and half drying. Hickory is another. But oak, and I expect maple, take awhile to dry.

[celliott]

We have a 3 bay woodshed, each holding approximatly a winters supply of firewood, so ours gets dried 2 years, sometimes more in the pile.

[motohed]

Usually a year is good for most maple species ,and 2 years at least for oak , hickory , etc .

[Chuck White]

Around here, most people cut next Winters firewood this Winter!

That way it's seasoned about a year and less creosote problems!

[beenthere]

And "most people" burn wood that isn't yet dry. 

[Reddog]

My answer is "As long as you can wait"
If you can wait two years all the better.
For me it is usually about 2 weeks. Most likely why I hate oak for firewood.

[John Mc]

A lot depends on how you are storing it. If I'm willing to put the extra labor into it, I can get beech and maple down to around 15-17% moisture content (good for firewood) by the fall heating season if I cut, split and stack it in the spring.

To do this, I cut, split, and stack in single rows, on pallets so it's up off the ground. The cut ends of the logs are oriented into the sun and prevailing wind. Early on in the drying process, I may leave it uncovered. As it dries, I cover the top of the stack with a scrap of plywood or sheet of old metal roofing. At the end of the summer, I'll move it in to my wood shed (open on 3 sides with good airflow, but still well protected from rain). If it still needs a bit more drying, I'll leave some space between the stacks to allow for better air circulation.

If I take the same stuff and cut split and stack it straight into my wood shed, with little spacing between the stacks, it's nowhere near dry by fall. It's OK by the following fall, but even then some of it is marginal.

Results of these were tested periodically by cutting up a log and checking the interior with a moisture meter.

So I'm seeing a swing from 6 months up to 1.5-2 years to dry wood, depending on how it's stored. Beech seems to dry faster than Red Maple. Oak takes longer.

John Mc

[BCinVT]

Thanks for the replies.Knew I'd get the info on here.I've got some maple down already,and will be splitting and stacking it in the spring.I will be stacking in spaced rows,in an area with good sun,so hopefully it'll dry ok.Also have some downed stuff on the land,so I'll try to get that stuff split and stacked for the coming year.

[thecfarm]

BCinVT,welcome to the forum.Everyone gave you good info.Glad to hear tarps are not used.They work kinda good for snow,but not the best for keeping rain off wood while trying to dry it.Split wood will dry better than round wood,if it needs to be split.
I use to burn hemlock in the stove in the basement.Have to remember it is a soft wood.But you will be able to control it and it will coal down some.Best thing is to mix it in with hardwood.Maybe burn it during the fall and spring.This hemlock was dry and did not have trouble with creosote.A shed is really the way to dry wood.

[John Mc]

Another couple of points:

Get the wood up off the ground if you can. Some times I use old pallets. If there are none of them available, I'll cut and lay down a couple of 3" or so diameter poles parallel to each other and stack the wood on that. This improves air circulation, and keeps the wood from wicking moisture up out of the ground. Seems to make a big difference - I find pallets work a bit better for air circulation, but either is much better than stacking on the ground. When stacking out in the woods, it's almost always poles for me.

Most of the drying is out the end grain. When you think about it, this is how water flows within the tree when it's alive. So long lengths don't dry as quickly as short ones. Just dropping and limbing a tree doesn't do much to get it dry. At least buck it to stove length. Splitting helps even more (more surface area exposed).

If you can't get a freshly cut tree bucked to stove length right away, I've heard that leaving the limbs and leaves on will help pull moisture out of the tree. Once the leaves are brown/dry, this stops helping much. I have not confirmed this with any experiments but it does seem to make sense... the leaves will try to pull moisture out of the trunk as long as they are alive.

Exposure to wind is as important as sun for fastest drying. (Just ask a farmer about wha it takes to dry up his fields). Having at least a breeze passing through the woodpile helps carry away some of the moisture that has been driven out of the wood.

Dry, fully seasoned wood that got rained on dries back out a whole lot quicker than green wood dries initially. It's mostly just surface wetness that it needs to get rid of, as opposed to the green wood that needs to drive moisture out from the middle of the piece.

Woodheat.org has some good wood seasoning and burning tips. (Admin: is posting another web site on here OK, if it's not really a competing site?)

Sorry for the long ramble. There are a lot of rumors and old wive's tales about drying firewood. I've probably repeated some of them, but hey, swapping and arguing about firewood lies is part of the wood heating ambiance...

John Mc

[fuzzybear]

   I had an old bushman teach me a trick that I have used for years.  When I drop the tree I cut a groove with the saw about 1/2"-1" deep down the tree. Then when I buck it up I stack the wood with the groove up and it dries a lot faster.  I can leave the blocks round and split them in the winter when it's easier. 
   I first thought this was just a myth, until I tried it. it really does work.

[celliott]

   I had an old bushman teach me a trick that I have used for years.  When I drop the tree I cut a groove with the saw about 1/2"-1" deep down the tree. Then when I buck it up I stack the wood with the groove up and it dries a lot faster.  I can leave the blocks round and split them in the winter when it's easier. 
   I first thought this was just a myth, until I tried it. it really does work.

I have heard of doing that also, especially with birch trees, which seem to retain alot of moisture.

[WildDog]

You guys get it easy, we generally only burn hardwoods, eucalyptus species etc. I don't know about moisture content but for reasonable  burning at least ten years to dry. Last winter we tried burning heads I had fallen 6 yrs back and my wife was not happy, still too green. The narrow limbs would of been OK but not the stuff that needed splitting, the loggers went through our place 12 yrs back and I am only just splitting that for firewood for sale. I like the standing dead "Box" trees that were ring barked more than 50 years ago, (getting harder to find)the only problem with these is a lot have hollows for parrots and sugar glider nests, they say a good nest hollow takes 100yrs to form in a living tree, so I leave these ones.

[Magicman]

Some times I use old pallets.  John Mc 

If we used pallets, the termites would eat more wood than we burned..... ;D

[beenthere]

........ cut a groove with the saw about 1/2"-1" deep down the tree. Then when I buck it up I stack the wood with the groove up and it dries a lot faster.  ..........

And your thoughts as to why this would work are...??   :

[fuzzybear]

........ cut a groove with the saw about 1/2"-1" deep down the tree. Then when I buck it up I stack the wood with the groove up and it dries a lot faster.  ..........

And your thoughts as to why this would work are...??   :

I don't know exactly how it works, It hink it allows an area for the moisture to escape through the bark.   I know when I don't do it to the poplar I cut it takes 3 years to dry. When I do cut the groove it only takes 1 for the logs to crack.
   I've never tried it on birch but others that have here say it cuts the drying time in half.

[beenthere]

Okay
Apparently you are figuring if/when the wood develops a check (crack), then the wood is dry.
That kerf line will help that check develop sooner, and at the kerf line. As to the wood being any drier....I wouldn't be too sure on that. 

[fuzzybear]

when I say crack I mean dry out and split on it's own. And side by side piles of grooved and non grooved piles show me it works.  I was a sceptic too until I tried it and compared. Of course I have 24 hrs of sunlight a day in the summer to help dry out the wood faster. But the groove does work. Try it once and see for yourself. It only takes a couple of sec. to do.

[John Mc]

I've done that groove with Birch, if I'm not going to be able to split it for a while. It does make a difference. Without it, a birch log sometimes seem as prone to rot as to dry. That birch bark really holds the moisture in - I guess there's a reason that the Indians used to make canoes out of it. I've never tried it on other species, and don't do it much at all anymore, since I tend to split stuff shortly after bucking it.

[beenthere]

I may do that, and if I do, I'll take side-by-each blocks and weigh them, then put the kerf in one. Continue to weigh both of them for a few months to see if the kerfed block loses more weight (keeping them both under the same conditions). That should tell if one loses more moisture than the other. 

Great idea if it works.

[downeast]

   I had an old bushman teach me a trick that I have used for years.  When I drop the tree I cut a groove with the saw about 1/2"-1" deep down the tree. Then when I buck it up I stack the wood with the groove up and it dries a lot faster.  I can leave the blocks round and split them in the winter when it's easier. 
   I first thought this was just a myth, until I tried it. it really does work.

No myth, with the birches' impermeable waterproof bark, the groove opens the butts to dry better. Otherwise Paper/White Birch will "pooch" ( start to rot from the ends )within a few months. It doesn't take much after dropping the tree to slice the bark as you limb the birch.

Firewood harvest here from 6 to 8 cords/year is done only in winter, maybe from mid fall, when the ground is dry or frozen for access. Trees ( Paper Birch ~50%, Red/Soft Maple ~20%, the rest Green and Brown Ash,and a  little Red Oak) are dropped, bucked into stove lengths, then stacked in the open by the woodshed for later splitting and stacking over the summer. They're usually dry enough for good burning by late fall. This year was wet, wet through July; a real PITA for drying.

If you're serious about using wood as your main heat source-- none of this heating "up from" a 65 F thermostat  :-- you need to build a real storage shed for the wood. Easy, handy.

[fuzzybear]

   My firewood consumption is at 30 cords per year.  This is our ONLY source of heat.  Now this total is for everything,  2 house stoves, barrel stove in the shop, and green houses in the spring.  Our average temp is around -20 with about 1 month of -40 to -55.  I keep 10 cords on hand. since I log through the winter I usually have more than enough logs that are customer rejects to fill the stoves each day.
   I burn Spruce and poplar. Poplar mostly at night. The fire NEVER goes out.
   You definatly need a wood shed here.

[beenthere]

fuzzybear
Any pics of your spread? and shed? 
(we like pics  ;D)

[SwampDonkey]

I burn my firewood anywhere from 6-10 months after it's been cut. It's always lots dry, the ends are all checked wide open and the bark falling off. Last spring I put my firewood directly into the basement from when it was delivered, less bugs and dirt. I kept 1.5 cord outside to put in at end of summer for fall wood. It was lots dry as well and by the time I burn that the other is even dryer with the bark falling off it. Oak is a lot wetter when cut than hard maple, beech and yellow birch. Meaning a lot more water weight, 7-8 lbs more at 30 % MC. The three species I listed are all about the same for weight and sp. gravity and heat value. Doesn't take much to light my firewood in the furnace or shop stove. I know some people that would consider 3 year old firewood too old, even when stored in the shed. Not me, as I see it as just as good as long as it's not spoiled by weather and moisture and things feeding off it. 

Our winters up here are dryer than the mild seasons. RH averages around 70 % all year 'round, but the air is a lot dryer in winter. We only get 30 % of our annual precip in the cold months. High RH doesn't mean high moisture in the air, it's only a ratio. However the higher the dew point the higher the moisture, proven fact of life. ;D

Explaining dew point and RH to the public

[bill m]

Years ago when I worked for a local logger we sold about 350 full cord a year. All cut and split by hand ( no processor just a log splitter ). We would  go into the woods in June and drop all the trees we needed and not limb them at that time. The leaves would suck the moisture out of the trees and by October when we cut and split them they were ready to burn.

[SwampDonkey]

Dad used to sometimes leave the limbs on the trees in the winter cut. In would be out in the field and often the leaves would flush and be supported with stem moister for several weeks, sometimes epicormic branches come out as well. I've cut logs in the late summer and left the tops on until October before I bucked up the logs and firewood. Helps draw the moisture out for sure.

[John Mc]

I'm having trouble believing that leaving the limbs and leaves out draws out enough moisture so that wood is "ready to burn" if left in tree length over one summer, then bucked shortly before burning in the fall. Does it really work that well? (It may be time for another experiment.)

John Mc

[SwampDonkey]

It mostly draws the free water, bound water not so much, but by then it's probably around 30 % MC. What do you think draws free water up the tree when it's standing on the stump? Leaves. The water will flow from high concentration (in the stem) to a low or sink (transpiration from leaves).

[John Mc]

It mostly draws the free water, bound water not so much, but by then it's probably around 30 % MC. What do you think draws free water up the tree when it's standing on the stump? Leaves. The water will flow from high concentration (in the stem) to a low or sink (transpiration from leaves).

SwampDonkey - I'm not arguing that leaving the leaves on doesn't work. In fact, I was the one who brought it up earlier in this thread. What I had trouble with was the idea that leaving the leaves on would accelerate the drying process enough that you could drop a tree in June, leave it tree length (with limbs and leaves attached), buck it in October, and it would be "ready to burn".

My experience has been that tree length just doesn't dry that quickly. Leaves on helps, but I didn't figure it's enough to get things dry enough to burn well in just 4+ months. Time for an experiment next summer, I guess.

John Mc

[rick f]

Around here ( Downeast Maine) we call that Wilted wood. Cut it and let the leaves come out, then in September cut it to lenght, split and pile it for winter. Usually makes for some good wood

[beenthere]

John Mc

The confusion lies in the "ready to burn" perception. Some will burn wood at a much higher moisture than what others consider to be seasoned wood.
Prolly not important enough to try to get anyone to change what they perceive as "seasoned wood".

Some don't want to burn dry wood, as it burns up too quickly. Others don't want to go to all the work/labor of falling, dragging, bucking, splitting, and stacking volumes of wood just to have much of its energy go to converting water to steam. Some don't mind doing this.

I prefer at least two years of split wood stacked for drying. Works best for me.  8)

Leaves, I believe, won't "pull" much moisture out of a tree...and for sure won't pull it out of the heartwood. Maybe a minute bit out of the sapwood.

But perception is the key here. And if that works good for anyone, that is great. 

[stonebroke]

I think if you cut it down as soon as the leaves were out fully, then cut and split once the leavers dry up you would be ok. I did it and it seemed to work.

Stonebroke

[Dodgy Loner]

Leaves, I believe, won't "pull" much moisture out of a tree...and for sure won't pull it out of the heartwood. Maybe a minute bit out of the sapwood.

Here is a simple experiment you can try: Next spring, fell a tree after the leaves are fully flushed, then immediately tie clear plastic garbage bags over a few of the branches. Make sure the bags are watertight and not damaged during the process. Wait a few days and see how much water has collected in the bags. I think you will be surprised.

[SwampDonkey]

John it's not the traditional method in my area to do it that way. I only recall doing it to work small quantities into the main firewood supply for the house. Traditionally, most firewood was cut in the fall and winter of this year and burned starting next September. If you had a kitchen wood burning stove and a huge woodshed, there could be wood stacked for 2-3 years before the entire shed of wood was replaced with new wood again. The truth is, no one of us knows how dry to other guys wood is that he is burning. I don't know what the MC is of my wood exactly, I don't carry a moisture meter. But, I can say for sure that it isn't wet and it lights easy and it doesn't sound like bacon sizzling on the frying pan. Not only that, I have to open windows  with only 2 or 3 split sticks, from a 10-14" maple, beech y. birch, of firewood in the furnace that burns 6-8 hours per reload. In the real cold weather, way below zero, that same wood will be gone in 5 hours. Now if I had oil, then I not only would I be spending a lot more of my hard earned cash to heat, but I'd be half froze. I like to be warm, so I'm burning wood. I'll order just the same amount of wood this spring as I always have and be just fine and dandy and toasty warm next year. :D

[bill m]

Most of the trees we were cutting were Ash, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, and Black Cherry. I don't think it would work as good with some of the other hard woods with a higher moisture content such as Oak.

[John Mc]

Here is a simple experiment you can try: Next spring, fell a tree after the leaves are fully flushed, then immediately tie clear plastic garbage bags over a few of the branches. Make sure the bags are watertight and not damaged during the process. Wait a few days and see how much water has collected in the bags. I think you will be surprised.

I doubt I'd be surprised. I know that there's moisture there. The bags would have quite a bit of water if I cut the limbs off the trunk, or even stripped the leaves and put them in the bag. How do you tell where the moisture in the bag is coming from?

Again, I'm not saying this technique doesn't help dry the wood. My question is: does it do enough of it that tree length wood is ready to burn in only 4 months? My bet is that Beenthere has it: it depends on what your perception of "ready to burn" is.

[SwampDonkey]

I doubt I'd be surprised. I know that there's moisture there. The bags would have quite a bit of water if I cut the limbs off the trunk, or even stripped the leaves and put them in the bag. How do you tell where the moisture in the bag is coming from?

I assume your mean what area of the trunk, sapwood or heartwood. I wonder if a dye could be injected with pressure, red in the heart and  blue in the sap? I don't know if the two dyes wouldn't combine and make magenta. Does green and magenta make white? It does with the color slider in Photoshop. :D

[John Mc]

I doubt I'd be surprised. I know that there's moisture there. The bags would have quite a bit of water if I cut the limbs off the trunk, or even stripped the leaves and put them in the bag. How do you tell where the moisture in the bag is coming from?

I assume your mean what area of the trunk, sapwood or heartwood.

Actually, I meant how much was coming from the leaves and limbs, vs the trunk. I know the foliage has a lot of moisture when green.

[SwampDonkey]

Leaves wouldn't have much, they'll burn up by days end when we cut little trees. Some definitely comes from the limbs, it's all connected. But as I said earlier, where there is a sink, the higher concentration of water flows toward it. Every bit helps dry the wood for those that might be behind in there firewood cutting. It's probably somewhere around 25-30% MC when the leaves draw it out for a few weeks. Leaves suck a lot of water, all the more the hotter and  brighter the day. If you had a meter you could test MC for various species. Don't do it for oak and say it's the same for rock maple, beech and yellow birch. ;)

[james]

lets see
out here my choices are : fir , tamarack or quaking aspen the fir and tamarack are standing dead cut in the spring , buck split and stack ready the next fall
james

[chevytaHOE5674]

I generally try to cut next winters wood during our spring break up (generally marchish). So in a few weeks I'll start making wood for next winter and it will be well seasoned by next winter.

[John Mc]

I generally try to cut next winters wood during our spring break up (generally marchish). So in a few weeks I'll start making wood for next winter and it will be well seasoned by next winter.

How are you storing it once it's cut? That can make a big difference in whether it's dry by next winter.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I cut split and stack it in rows running east to west, so the wind blows down through the rows. Then come winter I stack as much as possible in the basement with one of the woodstove vents blowing on it, so it acts like a kiln.

[Hans1]

This is a great discussion on firewood i heat with a wood boiler and for the last 2 winters cold by our standards i have heated with mostly hickory cut not usaully split and burned within a few weeks it burns fine but i am wondering how much extra i am using and it does make for lots of ash compared to when the wood is dry. The wood all comes from TSI so the supply to me is unlimited.

[ickirby]

This is a great discussion on firewood...

I agree Hans.

I my self burn 5-7 cords of green ash (pennsylvanica), it is so cheap to get right now in log length delivered that I can't justify going out and cutting my own.  It is cut and split and stacked outside in rows between trees uncovered for 8 months.  I know I should cover the piles but I have good drying and limited troubles with precipitation.  As soon as the frost leaves the ground first project of the year is to add two 12'x16' pole shed style awnings to my shed and that will be my new wood shed(s).  One for this years wood and one for next years wood, alternating.   

I started heating primarily with wood two winters ago.  After growing up learning some good and not so good advice from family about heating with wood I was looking for some good information and found a lot of good info online.  One website I found particularily useful was www.woodheat.org.  I really liked the videos on the site.

Enjoy

[BCinVT]

Great to see this thread still going. smiley_clappingHaven't been on lately because I've been up back cutting wood for next year.Trying to stick mostly with maple for next year,then in the spring I'll cut a bunch of yellow birch for the winter after next.Saw some very intersesting replies on here about time of drying.From what I've gathered,I'll try to let my wood dry at least a year.It'll be getting split and stacked in a woodshed as soon as I can build one in the spring.

[John Mc]

BCinVT -

If you are stacking it in your woodshed green, just make sure you design the shed for good airflow, and leave some space between the stacks... otherwise, a year may not be enough drying time, especially up here in VT.

[BCinVT]

Yeah,I plan on having my woodshed open in the front,and staggering the sides to get good airflow.Thanks for the heads up though.Lot of this stuff will be trial and error till I get a good system that works.

[SwampDonkey]

If you store some not quite dry near your burning appliance, like a basement, and stack your driest wood to the front, the rest will dry real fast with that wood heat.

[eamassey]

Let me give the minority report:
I have burned wood most of my life-- have two wood stoves in the house, one in the shop.  I more-or-less cut wood as I burn it, resulting in some wood being burned the day I cut it, and hardly any burned that has been cut more than a month. So, just what is it I might be missing by not having 1-year or 2-year dried wood?
I do cut blown down trees first-and I usually have enough for half the winter. (They might have been blown down 1 to 8 months.)

[beenthere]

eamassey
You are not missing anything, especially the exercise of cutting about twice the wood to get the same heat.  ;D
Keep it up, as you are prolly healthier for it.

[John Mc]

Let me give the minority report:
I have burned wood most of my life-- have two wood stoves in the house, one in the shop.  I more-or-less cut wood as I burn it, resulting in some wood being burned the day I cut it, and hardly any burned that has been cut more than a month. So, just what is it I might be missing by not having 1-year or 2-year dried wood?
I do cut blown down trees first-and I usually have enough for half the winter. (They might have been blown down 1 to 8 months.)

What you are missing is about 40% of the BTU value of the wood (comparing fresh green hardwood to seasoned). You are wasting BTUs heating up all that moisture, and wasting a tremendous amount vaporizing that moisture. In addition, since the fire is burning cooler it's burning less efficiently. A lot of what is released from this cooler fire is combustible, but not at those temperatures. Instead, those flammable gasses are just going up the chimney unburnt (or depositing on the inside of your chimney as creosote).

John Mc

[treedragger]

I don't know if you have heard of girdling a tree but it is a good way to start drying the wood while the tree is still standing.  This is where you cut about two inches of bark around the circumference of the tree.  This will cause the tree to die and start to season while it is standing.  You can go around your the woods and girdle the trees that you want to cut next year.  This way when you cut and stack it you can stack it right where you are going to burn it.  I hope you find that this helps.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum treedragger.

Any pics of your drying method ??

[SwampDonkey]

I know a few people that burn right off the stump to. I can't tell'm any different.  There are a lot of folks that don't think ahead, like preparing for next year. ;)

[Ron Scott]

I know some to, and they're loggers who are in the woods cutting most every day. They only take a days supply of firewood home with them each day. ;)

[Black_Bear]

Let me give the minority report:
I have burned wood most of my life-- have two wood stoves in the house, one in the shop.  I more-or-less cut wood as I burn it, resulting in some wood being burned the day I cut it, and hardly any burned that has been cut more than a month. So, just what is it I might be missing by not having 1-year or 2-year dried wood?
I do cut blown down trees first-and I usually have enough for half the winter. (They might have been blown down 1 to 8 months.)

I'm not an Arkansas weather expert, but I would tend to think that the mild (relative to northern latitudes) winter temps would allow a resident of Amity, AR to more readily use green wood, especially in a well insulated building or a garage where you may not need the inside temp. to be consistently high. Most of the time we build just enough of a fire in the garage to take the chill off, especially if we are working in it. The temperature in northern latitudes will drop into the single digits or sub-zero for days or weeks at a time, without warming up during the day. Generally written, the 40% btu loss, as written by JohnMC, would be missed more in the northern latitudes than in the southern latitudes.

Also, some species burn OK green, which may be working to eamasseys advantage?? I know quite a few guys that will mix in freshly cut white ash with their dry wood, especially towards the end of winter if their dry supply is running low.   

[John Mc]

If you have to burn green wood, White Ash is the way to go. If you compare all the commonly available hardwoods when freshly cut, White Ash has the lowest moisture content... so you lose the least by burning it green. If stored properly, it also tends to lose that moisture readily  (as compared to Red Oak, that seems to want to hold on to the moisture forever). That, couple with the fact that it's got decent BTU content, and just about splits if you look at it too hard make it fairly popular for firewood.

I agree that the heating demand is probably less in Arkansas than here in Vermont, but that doesn't change the fact that he's burning almost twice as much wood as he needs to if he's burning it green. I just can't see letting that much of my hard work go to waste. On top of that, you'll get more creosote build-up (and therefore greater chance of chimney fires) if you burn green wood than burning properly seasoned wood.

Finally, burning a hot fire from seasoned wood is puts out far less pollution, especially the fine particulates that can cause respiratory problems. You see this around here if a few folks in a small valley neighborhood fire up their OWBs with green wood under the wrong atmospheric conditions... the whole valley gets choked with smog from just a few stacks.

[eamassey]

Let me respond to some points:
First, yes, Southwest Arkansas is not that cold.  The high today was 37 deg. F--and that is a pretty cold day for us.  Our normal winter is one or two nights of 10-12 deg. F, maybe 10 or 12 days in the upper teens, half the winter the overnight lows are 26-34 deg. F. 

Second, about that 40 percent some of you say I am losing.  Sure, but control (avoiding overheat) and length of burn (overnight with no attention, rake the coals in the morning and go again) are more important to me.

Third, chimney problems.  I've been doing this for 30 years in the house I live in today.  I climb up on the roof about 3 times per winter, sorry, but I can't ever find anything to do.  Well that is not quite true, in the spring the chimney cap (uninsulated thin aluminum) gets cleaned.  Creosoting is a combination of what goes up the chimney + the physical condition of the chimney.  The best defense is an insulated (definitely not thermal syphon) chimney.

Last, of course I might just be too lazy or un-organized to cut my wood a year (or more) ahead of time.  Actually, I really do much prefer to run chain saws in cold weather rather than hot.  I have often hauled wood off, at the end of the heating season, because it will be too dry by next heat season---and bark falling off, etc.  So I burn green wood by choice.
(Maybe my house is too tight and too insulated??)

Pollution issues.  Actually my smoke from the stacks look pretty clean to me.  I am also in a low population density area, and well protected from anyone building very close to me-- by owning the land.  I usually have a few large (dozer piled) brush piles to burn each year---that puts up more smoke than heating 10 houses for the winter with wood. 

I burn 60% red oak, 15% white oak, 10% other oaks, 10% hickory, 5% other, --- but never gums, sycamore, pine, cedar, etc.

[John Mc]

Pollution issues.  Actually my smoke from the stacks look pretty clean to me. 

Just being able to see the smoke is a decent indicator of whether you are burning clean. Other then when starting up a new charge in the wood stove, you should not be able to see your smoke for more than a few feet after it leaves the stack. If you can see more than that, it's not burning clean.

Hey, I'm not trying to tell you how to burn your wood. If what you are doing works for you, that's great. You just asked what you were missing by burning green wood. Up to 40% of the BTUs and a dirtier burn is the answer. That's just the physics of wood combustion in a typical wood stove.

[beenthere]

Let me give the minority report:
I have burned wood most of my life-- have two wood stoves in the house, one in the shop.  I more-or-less cut wood as I burn it, resulting in some wood being burned the day I cut it, and hardly any burned that has been cut more than a month. So, just what is it I might be missing by not having 1-year or 2-year dried wood?
I do cut blown down trees first-and I usually have enough for half the winter. (They might have been blown down 1 to 8 months.)

As was said earlier in response to your question....you are not missing anything. Just getting more exercise. No offense meant, and think you are doing just fine burning green wood. It is apparently what you want to do and have good justification to do it that way. That is great.  ;D

For others reading this thread, they may be looking for ways to make their firewood burning experience as efficient as possible. Can't do that burning green wood when it is in a cold climate. Different strokes for different folks  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I agree with the clean burn to. You can hardly see a wisp of smoke from my place. In this winter with it being so mild, I almost think I'm in Arkansas to. ;D I only clean my flu once a year before the burn season and clean my pipes periodically when burning because of the elbows mostly. Last fall was the first time I went up on the roof because of them darn fool honey bees building a honeycomb up there. :D

[Pullinchips]

im burning some now that i cut in Dec.  and just cut into firewood length and split about 3-4 weeks ago, and milking it with my 1 yr dry wood.  Have to split it up fine and work it more but it will burn not ideal but will work.  I read a forest service technical paper that shows that green wood put less creosote into your chimney, not the reason i burn green just cause i have never got a head of the game and just put up my woodshed last weekend.  Not tring to start the old heat green vs dry  crosote or not argument just pointing out something that i have read and what i do.

-nate

[Pullinchips]

Ok i found the technical publication i was referring to. Its a UGA Ga forestry commission publication, dont let the title distract you it is titles creosote production from beetle killed pine (this is the reason it took me awile to find it i kept looking past it thinking i know it was referring to Hardwoods) . Once you readinto the abstract you see they also considered green and seasoned hardwood in the production go to the chart where they weighed the residues, all wood green pine and dry pine and green HW had less residue as dry HW.  With out reading the whole thing again i beleive that they did the tests in a stove like a air tight woodstove and an open burn to simulate a sove and a fireplace, very interesting and contrary to what everyone thinks and says.

See publication here, no this is not mine look at the date and how old i am!

http://www.gatrees.org/Resources/Publications/ForestMarketing/GFRP25.pdf

[John Mc]

Interesting article.

I do wonder if the results would be different using a modern "clean burning" stove vs. the 1970's technology used for this study. Also, they noted that the results were obtained with the stove's air supply choked way down. This is a VERY poor way to burn wood, both from a creosote formation standpoint, and from an efficiency standpoint. It just about guarantees that you will not burn off much of the combustible gasses released.

I do agree that the commonly held idea that burning pine causes more creosote build-up is a myth. As noted in the article, the main variable is getting the air supply adjusted correctly (assuming you have a well-designed stove to burn it in).

[Black_Bear]

Yes, interesting article indeed. I think I have a new found appreciation for softwood, and a better understanding of the burning process.

I think I'll continue to burn hardwood though, it's free!!!!!!   8)

[Pullinchips]

Thanks for looking at it i was not trying to change any minds just pointing out an interesting read i found some yrs ago.  I agree i remembered it was an old article.

[John Mc]

It is an interesting article. I have an engineer friend who has done some design of wood boilers, and is really into the science of wood combustion. I'm going to run that past him to see his reaction. We've had some great debates on wood burning methods (he usually runs rings around me, but it's fun). This should kick off another round.

John Mc

[Pullinchips]

As i was on the road today to go check a logger this popped into my head again, what i though of was that yes this was in the late 70's i beleive with out relooking at it.  That was a long time ago but really not that long ago as far as wood stoves are concerned who goes and buys a new stove every 10 years yall probly have the one you built into your house or put into the fireplace when you went to an insert i bet you there are a good many from the 70's from the original energy crisis when folks switched to wood from fuel oil for heat  and im guessing that many of you are of the age that you were in the market for a wood stove in the 80's and my guess is that from the late seventies to the mid 90's that not much changed on these stoves. 
What im getting at is that a lot of you are probly running stoves similar in design to those that have been commercially availible during that period, just my assumption.  Think about it i still think of 1990 things as not that long ago, but heck that was 20 years ago

[baronthered]

I'd say that's fairly accurate for the most part. My stove is an old King I got from a relative and I haven't seen many new stoves. The only real market for a new one would probably be new construction but how many folks actually put a stove in these days?

I like to have a year at least on the wood I burn I generally follow the loggers around and get their tops and stuff they've left and try to get my wood late spring or early-mid fall. Summer too hot and muggy and late fall through spring is just too wet, wet enough most of my time would be spent getting out of where I was.

How many winters you think you could get by on this Sycamore standing at my grandmothers old house? 

[Pullinchips]

Me and my wife, one, we don't have a stove and i havent been able to talk her into one yet she likes to see it, so i have to burn three times the wood those with a stove would.

[John Mc]

I burn with a relatively new (6 year old) wood stove. It's been my primary source of heat for about the last 3 years (other than when I've got the flu or something and I'm too sick to deal with it, or when we're away on vacation, when we switch to propane). Our house is only 7+ years old, built very tight, well insulated, and we designed it with the idea of heating with a wood stove.

There have been a lot of people replacing old stoves, or adding stoves in my area in the last couple of years... the big spike in fuel oil prices a couple of years ago prompted a lot of this. There is also a program here in Vermont (I believe it's a state program, and not a federal one) where you can get credit towards a new, EPA compliant wood stove if you turn in your old, non-compliant one. It's been enough of an extra incentive that it's caused people with older, "dirtier" or worn out stoves to upgrade.

John Mc

[Magicman]

she likes to see it 

Glass doors  ???

[Pullinchips]

she likes to see it 

Glass doors  ???

Trust me i have tried that already. NO and NO. I said well how about we can even open it up, open the flu all the way up and leave the doors open for a while while you sit in front of it.  And NO.  Even when we go to a friends house that heats there entire house with the stove with almost no auxillary heat needed.  I was like power bills cut by $80 month, NO.

[Magicman]

Sounds like the lady likes to watch the fire.....

[downeast]

I burn with a relatively new (6 year old) wood stove. It's been my primary source of heat for about the last 3 years (other than when I've got the flu or something and I'm too sick to deal with it, or when we're away on vacation, when we switch to propane). Our house is only 7+ years old, built very tight, well insulated, and we designed it with the idea of heating with a wood stove.
There have been a lot of people replacing old stoves, or adding stoves in my area in the last couple of years... the big spike in fuel oil prices a couple of years ago prompted a lot of this. There is also a program here in Vermont (I believe it's a state program, and not a federal one) where you can get credit towards a new, EPA compliant wood stove if you turn in your old, non-compliant one. It's been enough of an extra incentive that it's caused people with older, "dirtier" or worn out stoves to upgrade.John Mc

Ditto John here in Downeast Maine. We designed the two parts for wood stove heating off the woodlot. Both "sides" are about the same size--the original 24' x 24' cape we built tight but only R-11 ( 3" ) walls with no plumbing until we built a "real place"  ;D with running water, flush toilets, etc.... The "real place" is heated with a cat VC Encore that does near twice the heat as the other with the non cat Oslo. This second wing though was seriously insulated ( 6" walls, 12" roof, sandwich slab, etc...) and very very tight. The original is shut off from the plumbing wing when we're off for more than a day in winter. A propane space heater will keep it ~ 50F.

Since the 70's we must have gone through 12 stoves in various homes in northern Mass while into careers. The original Vermont Castings, Vigilant and Defiant were tough, well built products. I had Lange, Morso 2BO (recycled the smoke before going out the flue ), Jotuls, Tempwood, the Bear stoves.........

[John Mc]

Since the 70's we must have gone through 12 stoves in various homes in northern Mass while into careers. The original Vermont Castings, Vigilant and Defiant were tough, well built products. I had Lange, Morso 2BO (recycled the smoke before going out the flue ), Jotuls, Tempwood, the Bear stoves.........

I've got a Hearthstone Phoenix (non-cat) which we've been very happy with. Heats 2 floors of our 3 BR house with no problems at all in all but the coldest weather (i.e. -10F or lower for an extended time). If it weren't for the fact that my wife likes a warm house, even in those very cold days it would be fine.

To bring this back closer to the original topic: I can definitely tell the difference if I get into a section of my woodpile that has not dried as well as it should... I've got to keep the stove stoked higher, and it struggles to keep up on days significantly warmer than the -10 F I noted above.

John Mc

[lumberjack48]

Over all the years being a logger, when falling timber ahead never leave the tops on in the green season. The leaves suck all the moiscure out of the wood, this is not good when selling by weight.
When cutting firewood i found this to work very  good, i would fall a bunch of trees down, when the leaves turned brown, firewood is ready to skid in, this is an old Indain trick. ;D

[Pilot1]

As should be evident from the earlier replies, how long to dry depends on the species, where you live (coastal New England vs. Arizona) and other factors, such as size--a large piece dries slower than a small one.

So here's what I suggest.  Go to Harbor Freight and buy a moisture meter for about $12.  Get some pieces drying and check them regularly.  At some point they will not dry much more, no matter how long you wait.  Even when "dry" the moisture will vary somewhat.  My wood, which is in dry storage dried down to 12%, which is the same as I had in the timbers in my dry pole barn with a concrete floor.  Then we had lots of rain, higher humidity, of course, and the wood moisture went up to 15%, even though none of it got rained on--it just absorbed moisture from the air.  It's mostly Doug fir with some cherry mixed in and it burns well at either moisture level.

[Magicman]

Pilot1, Welcome to The Forestry Forum......

[Pilot1]

Thanks for the welcome. 

Used to participate as Pilot, then kind of dropped out a couple years ago while I worked on building an airplane, but got back on OK a couple days ago.  The next day the site wouldn't let me log in anymore.  Had to reregister as Pilot1.

I'm a retired silviculturist, about 25 years experience--about 3 years in Montana, the rest in the Oregon Cascades, mostly on the west side, but some time on the east side also.

[Magicman]

I wondered about the name  ???  Jeff probably can fix whatever is /was wrong.