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Author Topic: Pro chains and low kick back chains!  (Read 12960 times)

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Offline KPSTIHLSAW

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Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« on: February 21, 2010, 02:39:08 PM »
Ok so i was wondering what the big advantages of the pro chains are, as to just your everyday low kick back chain. 

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 03:00:29 PM »
Pro chains will haul out a good chip.Low kickback chains are like a Harley with training wheels.try them if they work for what your doing fine. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 03:01:32 PM »
The pro chains are more prone to kick back in inexperienced hands but are more aggressive so faster. The low kickback chains are more designed to offer the weekend warrior more protection. In my experience they are a bit smoother but too slow for my liking.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline KPSTIHLSAW

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 03:54:31 PM »
So can you get the pro chains anywhere you can get low kick back.  Also is there a big price difference.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 04:56:23 PM »
Check out Baileys a  sponser here on this site .They often times have pre made loops in various popular sizes on sale .

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 12:27:35 PM »
Ok so i was wondering what the big advantages of the pro chains are, as to just your everyday low kick back chain. 
Depends what you mean by low kick chain KPSTIHL. Pro chain can have low kick back features too. Stihl makes a "comfort" pro chain that has 2 reduced kickback ramps one on the depth gauge[raker] and one on top of the drive link, just like combining Oregon's LGX[ramped depth gauge] and LPX[ramped drive link] into one chain.
Because of the big liablity issues in the US, Baileys warns in their Woodland Pro brand advertising, "This chain has no anti-kick back features, so its not recommended for casual users." But when you look on the next page their Oregon ad has no mention of this. Both the Woodland Pro and Oregon sawchain have the same ramped depth gauge for kickback reduction.
I feel the Oregon LPX chain is a little safer then its sister the LGX, but the LPX is a little heavier and cuts a tad slower then the LGX which offers better chip flow and clearance.
Sawchain companies have narrowered down their different types of chain quite abit over the last 20 yrs to just a few standard models,[I'm not talking about .050,.058,.063 etc] But yes they still do make a "consumer anti-kickback chain" with more safety ramps and humps then they have cutters.
You can still get a .404 chain with no kickback safety ramps at all, just straight verticle depth gauge  and cutter. This is what I call a "Pro" chain, but it seems the market it is used for now is going towards mechanical harvesting.
The best anti-kickback feature on a sawchain is "proper progressive depth gauge lowering".... as simple as that.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 04:27:56 PM »
    .
You can still get a .404 chain with no kickback safety ramps at all, just straight verticle depth gauge  and cutter. This is what I call a "Pro" chain, but it seems the market it is used for now is going towards mechanical harvesting.
The best anti-kickback feature on a sawchain is "proper progressive depth gauge lowering".... as simple as that.
Willard.
Not being one to argue I might only add some clarification as to sizes .I have everything from 3/8" low profile ,.325 ,3/8" and .404 with  no anti kick back devices on them what so ever .

One item that comes to mind though would be Oregon #96 which is .404 round chisel chain and depending  on the variation can be bought with or without the ramped rakers .Actually most Oergon chain is offered that way ,I just forget the exact numbers .

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 11:07:10 PM »
    .
You can still get a .404 chain with no kickback safety ramps at all, just straight verticle depth gauge  and cutter. This is what I call a "Pro" chain, but it seems the market it is used for now is going towards mechanical harvesting.
The best anti-kickback feature on a sawchain is "proper progressive depth gauge lowering".... as simple as that.
Willard.
Not being one to argue I might only add some clarification as to sizes .I have everything from 3/8" low profile ,.325 ,3/8" and .404 with  no anti kick back devices on them what so ever .

One item that comes to mind though would be Oregon #96 which is .404 round chisel chain and depending  on the variation can be bought with or without the ramped rakers .Actually most Oergon chain is offered that way ,I just forget the exact numbers .
No argument taken Al. I never heard of Oregon #96 .404, but the oldest Oregon .404 I have left is a 1/2 roll of 50AL. Actually a pretty rare chain these days ,.050 square ground .404 with no safety ramps or bumper drive links.
 Ramped depth gauged .404 chisel is 58L and 59L. Semi chisel with no ramps is the 27 .
Some 3/8 Lo Pro chain [91VX] looks like it has no anti-kickback, but that sloped depth gauge is actually a design for kickback reduction. All the .325 chain I have seen has some sort of anti kickback device, even the 90S narrow kerf .325 chain has a sloped depth gauge like the 91VX Lo Pro. A sloped or ramped depth gauges shape doesn't grab in the wood like a straight fronted depth gauge does, that grap or jamming causes kickback.
Oregon makes no full size 70 series 3/8 chain without anti kickback ramps or bumper drive links. One company that does which I forgot to mention is Stihl with their 33, 36 RSK . Only non safety 3/8 made today.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 04:43:15 PM »
Sorry,typo on my part, it was #59 on that .404 chisel  indeed . Fact I just shipped off two loops to a guy .

I have no idea what is meant by 70 series 3/8" but as a fact I must have 20 loops of 72 Oregon which have no  anti kick backs either . Fact is also whatever that stuff Baileys sells, Arbor pro I think has no anti's on it either .--and I 've got some Stihl and Carlton same,same .Not a single one of my square ground chains in .404  or 3/8" by either Stihl or Oregon has anti kick backs .

I've got some inky dinky 3/8 low pro .044 gauge and it has no anti's nor does the Stihl in low pro .050 . These are for my 200t's .

Now just so everyone feels better I do have a bunch of chain that does have anti's but it stays on a nail in the shed . :D You can accumulate a lot of stuff over the years .

Offline Brucer

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 05:17:39 PM »
Sometimes the shape of the raker is considered to be an anti-kickback feature. While that may technically be true, many of us take "anti-kickback " to mean the chain has bumper links.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Pro chains and low kick back chains!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 12:32:34 PM »
Sometimes the shape of the raker is considered to be an anti-kickback feature. While that may technically be true, many of us take "anti-kickback " to mean the chain has bumper links.
Your 100% correct Bruce, thats exactly what I was trying to explain. But you have to be careful when you say "bumper links". Back in the 1980s, early 90s Stihl's 33-36 RS chain didn't have the ramped depth gauges like they have today. Then it was just a bump on top of the tie-strap directly in front of the straight depth gauge. The chain looked safe enough on the bar rails but when the depth gauge was in the upper quadrant curve of the bar nose [kick back zone] it was no longer protected by the "bumper link". 21 years ago I was a technical services manager for Stihl out of the Edmonton branch. Upon meeting Hans Peter Stihl I asked him about this problem and his answer was the bumper link tie strap was a optical illusion!!
Since the mid 1980s when ANSI regulations in the US started the warning label campaign on sawchain, US dealers were terrified of liability issues when selling sawchain to non pro endusers. The more humps and bumps the better.
Times have changed less pros, more consumers. Here in Canada we're not as sue happy as the folks down south, but I feel Canadians are slowly turning to that scenario too.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.


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