The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts





Author Topic: Guide rollers  (Read 2458 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrcaptainbob

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 572
  • Location: Jackson, Michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Guide rollers
« on: March 10, 2010, 11:37:53 PM »
Visited two sawmills today. Both were the same model WM. The first guy had the blade guide rollers a distance back enough from the blade where there was probably a 1/2 inch between the blade back and the roller flange. He claimed that if the blade ever touches that flange you don't have the saw set up right. The second guy says they were many of those guide wheel flanges out. They angle it just a bit so as to allow the blade back to catch the flange on one side only causing it to spin the needed direction. Was shown the difference between new and used. That used flange was pretty thin. So...which is it? Both have been using their mills for over fifteen years with a lot of obvious and impressive work to show for their effort. Touching the guide wheel flange, or not?

Offline sgschwend

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 538
  • Location: Oak Harbor, WA
  • My new Brand X sawmill
    • Share Post
    • Brideck Enterprises Portable Sawmill Service, Washington
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 11:48:46 PM »
I don't have a WM, but my two cents worth is that you need to stay away from the flange.  The flange should contact the blade only occasionally.   If the blade works against the flange I would expect that blade will take a longitudinal bend (I think Cooks sells a tool to straighten out those bends).

On my machine there are no flanges, just back bearings.  The blade rides on the crown of the wheels, when under load the blade may move back a bit (1/8-1/4") but still not contact the back bearings (those are there for short duration issues).  If it is moving that much then it is not running right; that would be my fault.

Offline backwoods sawyer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2202
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Camas Valley Or
  • Gender: Male
  • LT70-Cooks AC-36 edger-boom truck-oliver crawler
    • Share Post
    • Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 12:45:09 AM »
I look at like this. If you are running a double cut band, there is no back of the flange or back bearing, just the crown of the wheels. If the saw is pushing back on the wheel then the saw is not as sharp as it needs to be.
In addition, the back of the saw riding on the edge of the guide wheel will cause friction, there by over heating the back of the saw, which will cause cracking and premature band failure.
On the other hand running the guide to far back away from the saw, can leave the front of the saw unsupported, affecting the quality of the cut. A 1/16-1/8 gap between the flange and the saw seems to be the recommended spacing.   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Offline Bibbyman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11418
  • Age: 69
  • Location: In the middle of things
  • Gender: Male
  • Pro-Sawyer Mary and Bibbyman
    • Share Post
    • Warden Sawmill
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 01:38:01 AM »

On the other hand running the guide to far back away from the saw, can leave the front of the saw unsupported, affecting the quality of the cut. A 1/16-1/8 gap between the flange and the saw seems to be the recommended spacing.   


Ditto...
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5138
  • Age: 67
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 04:42:59 AM »
Right  1/16 to 1/8"   if the back of the blade didn't need support they wouldn't have flanges or roller bearings back there.   Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Chuck White

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Russell, NY (Way Upstate)
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing Mobile since 2005
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 05:21:35 AM »
I agree with the 1/8 - 1/16 inch gap behind the blade!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline MartyParsons

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1862
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Shade Gap, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • Wood-Mizer Service and sales PA, VA, MD, WV others
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 08:14:33 AM »
Hello,
   Clearance between the flange of the roller is 1/16 on drive side and  1/8 on the idle side. The roller is angled toward the idle side in relationship to the blade. The blade will contact the flange when sawing.  If the blade is in contact with the flange at all times the blade will crack along the back side and wear the flange. All alignment angles need to be adjusted, not just the clearance on the roller flange.
Angle of the roller is important, if the angle is not correct the blade will be pushed away from the roller when coming in contact with the flange (down)  if the angle is correct the blade will be pushed up and the upward motion is controled by the surface of the roller.
As you saw you can hear the blade rub the flange of the roller, when you slow the sawing speed the noise will stop. I usually see the roller last about 1000 hours, most times the roller tip is coned shaped. This can be adjusted out. I have seen the flange so sharp you could shave hair with it. There was an alignment issue when the wear to this point.
I have some rollers I have saved for training demonstrations. If you want me to take some pictures I would be glad to.
Hope this helps!
Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline OneWithWood

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Unionville, IN
  • Gender: Male
  • I am happy!
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 11:08:21 AM »
We always like pictures  ;D
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Offline rbarshaw

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 556
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Cottageville, SC
  • Gender: Male
  • Someday
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 02:01:31 PM »
I ran Cooks roller guides on the first mill I built, had rubber mobile home tires for bandwheels. I kept an aproxamate 1/8" gap between the flange and the blade back while not cutting, the balde would ride against the flange while cutting, unless I went slow.
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

Offline Chuck White

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 12270
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Russell, NY (Way Upstate)
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing Mobile since 2005
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 02:11:12 PM »
I ran Cooks roller guides on the first mill I built, had rubber mobile home tires for bandwheels. I kept an aproxamate 1/8" gap between the flange and the blade back while not cutting, the balde would ride against the flange while cutting, unless I went slow.


The blade will ride against the flange while sawing.
The flange is there to keep the blade from coming off the back end of the roller guide.

You CAN'T have a flange on the front of the roller guide (for obvious reasons) and that's why the book says disengage the blade before returning the saw to the head of the mill.   If you don't disengage, and you bump a sliver or a piece of bark, the blade will come off of the roller guides and possibly ruin the blade!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline Tom

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 25838
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Jacksonville, Florida
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Toms Saw
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 04:01:56 PM »
Those flanges on the back of the roller also add to the beam strength of the band.  Keeping the guide rollers within 3" of the cant or log is in your best interest to allow the flange to do its job.
extinct

Offline ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5138
  • Age: 67
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: Guide rollers
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
Hello,
   Clearance between the flange of the roller is 1/16 on drive side and  1/8 on the idle side. The roller is angled toward the idle side in relationship to the blade. The blade will contact the flange when sawing.  If the blade is in contact with the flange at all times the blade will crack along the back side and wear the flange. All alignment angles need to be adjusted, not just the clearance on the roller flange.
Angle of the roller is important, if the angle is not correct the blade will be pushed away from the roller when coming in contact with the flange (down)  if the angle is correct the blade will be pushed up and the upward motion is controled by the surface of the roller.
As you saw you can hear the blade rub the flange of the roller, when you slow the sawing speed the noise will stop. I usually see the roller last about 1000 hours, most times the roller tip is coned shaped. This can be adjusted out. I have seen the flange so sharp you could shave hair with it. There was an alignment issue when the wear to this point.
I have some rollers I have saved for training demonstrations. If you want me to take some pictures I would be glad to.
Hope this helps!
Marty




 Marty,  thats good info on the flange pulling the blades up or down, something I'll be checking real soon.    Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

question
WoodMizer guide rollers

Started by isawlogs on Sawmills and Milling

9 Replies
2436 Views
Last post December 17, 2006, 06:26:14 AM
by DWM II
xx
Band guide rollers

Started by bandmiller2 on Sawmills and Milling

9 Replies
893 Views
Last post November 02, 2017, 12:20:32 PM
by JRWoodchuck
xx
TK2000 Guide Rollers

Started by manoverboard on Sawmills and Milling

17 Replies
1151 Views
Last post October 27, 2013, 08:56:57 AM
by manoverboard
xx
blade guide rollers

Started by customsawyer on Sawmills and Milling

19 Replies
3443 Views
Last post October 26, 2004, 08:11:45 PM
by Furby
 


Powered by EzPortal