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Author Topic: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting  (Read 6351 times)

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Offline Peder McElroy

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circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« on: March 28, 2010, 10:15:56 PM »
I am wondering about my 40" circular belsaw m-24. It seems to have 24 teeth and I'am wondering if more is better and do I get a faster cut with more teeth? Thanks all. Peder

Offline Puffergas

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2010, 11:22:57 PM »
More teeth you have the more horse power you'll need..  :(


Jeff
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline Carpenter

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2010, 11:24:59 PM »
More teeth will not necessarily increase the speed of the cut and it takes more horsepower to run a saw with more teeth.  From what I have read it is recommended to have 2 or 3 horsepower per tooth.  Then, if you have sufficient horse power you need to feed at a respectable rate to get the most use out of each tooth.  The feed rates are probably different for different styles of teeth and for different woods etc.  but an average rule of thumb is a tenth of an inch of feed per tooth in hard woods and an eighth of an inch in hardwoods, and that is of course per revolution of the blade.  If you have extra horsepower and your feed rate is high enough than a blade with more teeth can cut faster.  
     Let me see if I can make this a little more understandable.  I just got back from the saw doc yesterday and am still a little confused myself.  I run a 50" 36 tooth blade with 3 style shanks.  I really need at least 70 horsepower to run the saw and should be feeding at a rate of 4.5 inches per revolution in soft woods.  Right now I only have 35 horsepower available and the blade has been loosing rpm in the cut which has caused it to lay over and my lumber has not been consistent sized end to end.   After talking to the hammer smith he convinced me to leave every other tooth short so that I will have half the number of teeth doing the work.  They will cut a bigger chip and he tells me that the chips should be a measurable thickness he explaned to me that if I was cutting a lot of fine saw dust that that dust can fall out past the shank in the cut and rub against the blade and cause extra heat and of course take more power than cutting bigger chips.  evidently it takes about the same amount of power to push the tooth through the wood wether you are making a 1/16th cut or an 1/8 inch cut.  
       Are you confused?  If so that makes two of us, I had a lot of information thrown at me yesterday, I wrote a lot of it down and digested some of it.
       What type of power unit do you have?  What is your rate of feed?  is your rate of feed adjustable?
       There's a whole science to making a circular saw run well, I've only scratched the surface.
       Good luck.  

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2010, 06:19:34 AM »
Carpy,you've got a good handle on it,most small handset mills I've seen are feeding nowhere near the recomended rate.Even the ones that brag about their feed rate back off when their in a big log.Belsaw mills were designed with their blade in mind smaller size and fewer bits to match lighter power units and their slower feed rate.My own mill I have a gearbox to change the feed speed,you can bet your last cigar, big oak log I downshift.Peder I forget what do you have for a power unit??if you have the ponies you can up the hammered speed and faster feed.A study was done at a commercial mill,they found the saw was only in wood less than 20% of the time and faster feed and higher RPM amounted to squat at the end of the day.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline apm

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2010, 08:46:08 AM »
Let's try a little math. See if this sounds right............... 24 teeth at 1/10th of an inch per tooth, at 540 rpm. That's 2.4 inches travel for every revolution of the saw. So in one minute your carriage would ideally travel 2.4 X 540 or 1296 inches (108 feet). That will make a pass in a 12' log in 9 seconds. That's already pretty fast cutting. If you're taking less time than that, now, more teeth won't help a thing. You'll just make powder instead of coarse sawdust like you're looking for. Generally, the coarser the sawdust, the more efficient your saw is running.

If you have the horsepower/torque available and you can actually feed faster than 16 inches per second, calculated above, you've got one heck of an operation.  ;D

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Offline Peder McElroy

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2010, 11:33:47 AM »
Thanks so much for all the information. I'am running a 451 GMC gas motor with an automatic transmission in low gear. It cuts well and was just wondering about the rate of feed and I think you all answered my questions. I'am cutting redwood so it's quite soft except for the knots. Thanks again,I really like this forum and all the help and information everyone has to offer. Soon I'll be able help others also.Once I get this Phpto loading thing figured out I'll be able to send some great Photos. Peder

Offline apm

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2010, 11:35:59 AM »
Love seeing those Belsaw pictures! Looking forward to it.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Offline woodpeckerlips

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 10:41:07 AM »
peder,
 i run a old frick00<,  i have several blades with different teeth, b/f, 2 1/2, 3",   all are 48" blades.   each blade has a personality of its on.  i run a detroit 3-71. its somewhere in the 70 hp range. all my blades when sharp will cut fast enough for me. i like to torture who ever the off bearer is by putting the slabs to them. so i dont concider myself slow. as long as your getting big chips from a sharp blade and not forcing the log through and bogging the power unit down. your golden.  generally, the 2 1/2 is for soft woods. a freind of mine has a 4-71 with a 56" blade running 2 1/2 bits and cuts everything with it.   i'm running the 3" bits right now. i prefer it because it seems to cut with less effort.  popular, pine,ect.  its like these are styrofoam.  when i get a big red oak, it has to earn its keep and i think it probly has less trouble than a 2 1/2" with more teeth per blade would.   my opinon(and their's alot of different one's out there.)   if your running a hand set mill. your more concerned about the quality of the lumber than the speed.  get your blade good and sharp and let it do what your power unit will let it do! find you a good not to fast  for your power unit,not to slow speed and let her eat!  then poke your chest out at the pretty boards you made at the end of the day and dont worry about how many.    that's my nickels worth.

Offline Peder McElroy

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Re: circular saw blade more or less teeth for better cutting
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 11:29:37 AM »
Thanks woodpecker for all the info. I mostly cut redwood and it's soft . I think I figured out the feed speed that it likes to cut. Thanks again Peder


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